- cross-posted to:
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- cross-posted to:
- [email protected]
the people I know don’t listen and often hear the opposite of what I say. That’s why I have to repeat myself a lot.
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I’ve been diagnosed with Asperger’s.
I’m constantly astounded that people on the spectrum assume that they’re absolutely, 100% right, and that the problem is always everyone else. If I’m saying something, and no one around me is understanding what I’m saying, then the problem is clearly not everyone else. The very clear, and obvious problem is that I’m not communicating clearly -or- effectively.
More often than not, I find that I’ve omitted something that seems blindingly, patently obvious to me, but no one else was aware of because I entirely failed to communicate it.
This is a hallmark of being on the spectrum; people think that because they see things one way, everyone else must be able to see the same thing.
That one ‘blindingly obvious’ thing is key often for me too. Sometimes it’s not only not obvious to other people but it’s entirely wrong too.
Ironically, it’s often the same thing the other way round: the neurotypical leaves off or implies some context that seems obvious to them and the people they normally communicate with.
The other main thing, from neurodivergent to neurotypical, is (not) implying emotional meaning. (And vice versa, not picking up on it.) You say something and mean it logically, but hidden in your words is emotional meaning - sometimes it’s real but you wouldn’t even know it yourself; sometimes it’s not real just you said things in a way that someone else would if they meant that extra emotion. Communication is about emotion as much as facts, and the listener rightly tries to pick up on emotions, but misunderstands.
Sure, absolutely.
As I said in another comment, one of the defining characteristics of the autism spectrum is a blunted sense of empathy. As you say, that blunted empathy can mean that the autistic person doesn’t hear the emotional content, reacts to it inappropriately, or is not able to effectively communicate emotional content themselves.
Come to think of it, if people on the spectrum aren’t communicating emotional content, or are doing it very poorly, that might explain part of why some autistic people think they’re communicating precisely with carefully chosen words, but their intent and meaning is still being misunderstood.
I’d like to add to that, that ‘blunted empathy’ can sound like you’re a bad person: but as I understand it, and as I think I experience it, it’s more about empathy in the precise sense: of not instinctively feeling how someone else feels about something. You can still care about a person, with kindness, but lack empathy. That can lead to not caring and being only self-interested, but doesn’t have to. Sometimes the neurodivergent person is trying to express - and enact - kindness, but, being weak in empathy, has to find a different way to express it, one that would make sense to themselves. Often one with specific, logical meaning of words.
So this is kind of a message to neurodivergents. You can be realistic about a relative jack of empathy, but don’t need to feel put down as a bad person, or that you’re unkind. And I’m truly sorry for all the times people won’t understand your kindness because of the ‘language’ barrier. Wish I could give you all a hug (if hugs are your thing).
Keep trying :-) And I hope there will be some people in your life who will keep trying to understand and express things your way too.
My SO frequently includes me in conversations that they’ve already started in their head, and I have to remind them that I have zero context for what they just said.
I think probably all people dismiss what is obvious to them as not needing to be said, and for good reason: why overburden a conversation with obvious truths. Though given that we’re all just apes with a superiority complex, we’re probably entirely wrong about what’s obvious or true 🙈
It’s a little more complicated with autism though, because one of the hallmarks of autism is blunted empathy (and no, I’m not saying that we’re all sociopaths-lite).
An example I heard from a psychologist–and I’m going to try not to butcher this–is that if you show an autistic child a cookie tin and ask them what they think is in the tin, they’ll say cookies. Then you show them what’s in the tin, and it’s actually toy cars. But if, after showing them toy cars in a cookie tin, you ask them what another person is going to think is in the cookie tin, the autistic child is likely to say “toy cars”.
Obvs. most people on the spectrum get better about this as they get older and learn from experience, but I strongly suspect that this sort of thing is what’s going on when autistic people ‘explain’ things. My guess is that this difficulty with affective and cognitive empathy is also what leads to people on the spectrum over-explaining things; since they’re not able to make an accurate guess about what other people know or can infer, they give too much information about a thing.
Reminds me of that xkcd comic with two experts talking about how people not in their field would only know what they consider basic but people usually don’t know that either
Is this a thing? I feel like I often have to repeat my very clear and simple words and even then people remember them differently than I do? I thought I was just insane
I mean it could be but it’s important that we don’t assume that. I mean I’m just dumb.
Me too
Yeah, it is a thing, but beware also the times when you misremember both their words and your own. I, certainly, have been guilty…
At the same time, it may help to remember that people are often listening to, and I presume ‘remembering’ a sort of semantic meaning of what you said, not the words. Add to that a little mishearing, some assumption, and different expectations between you and them, and that can shift the meaning a lot from what you meant, while to them it seems they just approximately remembered.
yes
You say “relationship”, I hear “birthday”.
You say “practical”, I hear “eager”
You say “plan”, I’m not paying attention to what you said but will respond to you as if you asked a question about what I suddenly want to talk about and expect you to follow along rather than expecting an answer or steering us back on track
yep.
I can’t tell you how often I’ve had to say, “I picked my words very precisely.”
Yes but you picked them in your ‘language’, not that of the listener. Neuro-typical/divergent communication is a bit like translating across languages. Words by themselves don’t always translate directly.
That said, I concede, many people don’t listen carefully and jump to conclusions based on what they expect you to say.
Example: I want to sleep with you.
NT translation: I want to have sex with you.
Autistic translation: I want you and I to literally sleep and nothing else near each other, probably because I’m scared of sleeping alone in an unfamiliar place or some sensory thing.
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I’m just starting to say this openly when overstimulated. I never even recognized it until recently. I have words for this now…! and I’m going to use them and not feel ashamed
I try that on the roads but nobody seems to move out the way for me. I should try one of those flashy lights and wailing noise maybe?
Exactly! I want to go home is not an invitation for a discussion on why I should stay. It’s my compromise for telling you that I am leaving in a nice way.
Oh god I hate this, I’m afraid of people misunderstanding me especially when it comes to discussing sensitive or controversial topics
I avoid sooo many topics out of fear that people will not only misunderstand me, but then make permanent judgements of my character and even punish me. Like, I’m not allowed to say that sometimes my dog drives me so insane that I wish I never got her in the moment because that would make me a terrible dog owner and a horrible person. Yeah right! All I’m saying is that I have thought that at times. I haven’t beaten or neglected her. I’m not planning on dropping her off at the dog pound. I’m just being honest with a thought I had. A lot of people have even thought that about their own human kids.
When it comes to cis-women, I hold back a lot because they often think I’m trying to hit on them. Apparently, sharing an interest or wanting to hear them talk about their interest is considered flirting to NTs. Meanwhile, I’m just treating them the same way I would like to be treated. It would make my day if someone, regardless of gender, wanted to hear me talk about the Golden Age of Piracy. I would not think they’re trying to get in my pants because that’s not a romantic or sexy topic, just like hearing about your unhealthy eating habits isn’t romantic or sexy, Karen! And asking if you’re okay when you’re clearly distraught doesn’t mean I want to sleep with you either. I’m only trying to be nice.
It pisses me off that sometimes I use different words to describe something and people just have trouble understanding what I mean. Are most people crazy?
Moi aussi! Des hommes ne comprends pas mes mots?
maaaaa foi, moi ça va je comprends
I blame the public schools. They condition kids to drift through life without thinking or paying attention to anything
Every time you’re asked to repeat yourself, use different words which mean the same thing. Saying the same thing over and over and expecting to get a different response is useless and frustrating.
I do. I’ve conveyed the same information in so many different fucking ways and they still don’t get it.
Then one of them finally figures it out and explains it to everyone else the exact same way I first explained it and now they all get it.
I just fuckin avoid people now🤷♂️
“A Brief History of Time”
~
ThatWeirdGuy1001Stephan HawkingHAWKING!!!
I don’t know, friend. My daughter is high on the spectrum and struggles similarly. It must be frustrating
- Say what you actually mean.
- Mean what you actually say.
For some reason those 2 rules are the OPPOSITE of how normals’ culture wires people to work.
Normals’ rules are:
- Don’t say what you mean.
- Say what you don’t mean.
It’s abuse, & needlessly exhausting.
Gaslighting is just an exponential-amplification of normal-dishonesty.
_ /\ _
Stereotyping and otherising “normals” is some next-level tribalism.
So autism and depression have a lot in common as I gather.
Autistic people are more likely to be depressed just because life is harder being autistic. We’re often overwhelmed, insulted, bullied, misunderstood, and lonely.
I’ve learned that most of the time I’m just going to have to break down what I mean. I’ve gotten pretty good at getting what neurotypical people mean first try, but that door does not swing both ways.
It makes forming relationships much more difficult, but once someone understands they’ll need some patience I can just explain things till we both get what I’m saying.
I’ve heard that neurodivergent folks understand each other immediately without issue but that there’s a barrier between the two sides communicating. I’d believe it. I run into other neurodivergent people sometimes and am able to just immediately click with them.
