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- cross-posted to:
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Since recent events, every post like this seems to me like a most-wanted list.
Yes, I’m also pleased with the tenor of the times.
It is just information…
You’re a pretty smart person then lol
Has been for a long time.
This isn’t a useful metric as it’s obviously bad for retail and service industries, and good for tech simply because of their business models. The median wages are really high when you outsource most of your labor and your actual “employees” are a handful of high level engineers. Spectrum for insurance is scummy but you can’t just hire people in China to do service calls or upkeep infrastructure, ya know?
Also it doesn’t include ownership. 1:1 with AirBnb is misleading for instance as it’s probably mostly their execs on the team and their compensation is in stake at the company. Their business model also counts everyone as contractors, so there’s that too.
Even in “traditional” Industries it’s iffy.
If you outsource all your cleaning personnel, who have low paying jobs, you decrease the multiplier, even though nothing actually changed for the better.
Not to mention that the people doing most of the real labour to get e.g. clothes made and into shops work in sweatshops in poor countries and earn a tiny fraction of these salaries
Don’t suppose you have more pixels for this image?Never mind, my Lemmy app is being weird.
If you’re using sync, you wanna open a post before clicking to load the pic so you don’t get a lower quality version that’s for thumbnail purposes.
I am using Voyager
I don’t see the image at all on Jerboa lol
Even going directly to the URL at https://mander.xyz/pictrs/image/29140d91-0b42-42b1-9092-4a4c6e59dbe6.png in a clean browser session off a different IP, I get 429 - Too Many Requests in this JSON:
{"code":"object-request-error","msg":"Invalid status 429 Too Many Requests for Some(\"01/93/a1/c7/6a/8f/7c/d9/b9/a4/352f309d98f9.png\") - {\n \"message\":\"Too many requests\"\n}"}Rare instance moment.
Thank you. It’s blurry as hell on voyager.
Boost also hates this image
Alphabet 29:1? Is this Google or is there also some other company called Alphabet?
Yes but note the median pay is 300k. Most of the high ratios are retail and most of the low ratios are tech because of labor pay, not CEO. That said, Alphabet must be specific to an exec branch because there’s no way the median is 300k counting all the outsourced labor they likely rely on (like to make Pixel phones).
I doubt they actually make the phones - don’t they outsource it?
Plus Alphabet includes Boston Dynamics and other weird things they probably definitely shouldn’t be doing.
Just trying to think of examples. Employee labor isn’t much when you outsource everything.
The ratio between lowest paid and highest paid employee, in all forms of payment and benefits, to all employees (including contractors), should be capped. I’m thinking a ratio somewhere around 1:5 or so.
Have an employee paid only 20k per year? Congrats on your 100k salary Mr. CEO.
Agreed. Btw it is “paid”. “Payed” is a different word entirely. English is weird.
Fuck English, but I fixed my comment
to all employees (including contractors)
Might aswell just make it a multiple of the minimum wage, because somewhere in the chain there will always be someone scrubbing toilets earning next to nothing. Or you end up incentivizing complex structures that try to avoid this cap somehow.
That said i don’t think this is the right solution anyways, since it only targets income and not wealth. As long as profit gets made it has to end up somewhere. And i feel like it is much more likely to end up in the owners pockets, than resulting in higher wages. It’s similar to how the salaries of successful actors/athletes are obscene, but the alternative would be that the studio/club just makes more profit.
So the more important issue would be to improve mechanisms that redistribute money, from whereever large amounts of wealth accumulate. Like a wealth tax or higher inheritance taxes (or just closing all loopholes that help avoid/reduce it).
However i would definitely also support a higher maximum taxation rate for the super high earners.
Or you end up incentivizing complex structures that try to avoid this cap somehow.
They already do that with hiring employees as contractors, which is why I mentioned it. Any employee they hire gets counted.
That said i don’t think this is the right solution anyways, since it only targets income and not wealth.
Hence why I said payment in any form. That includes benefits, PTO, stocks, everything. The rich still have other shenanigans they pull, sure. But this would at least solve the problem on a salary level.
And i feel like it is much more likely to end up in the owners pockets, than resulting in higher wages.
Agreed, which is why the stock market needs to end. It’s the primary means by which they rob the working class.
So the more important issue would be to improve mechanisms that redistribute money, from whereever large amounts of wealth accumulate. Like a wealth tax or higher inheritance taxes (or just closing all loopholes that help avoid/reduce it).
I’d recommend looking into a land value tax system.
The government could incentivize this by a tax formula. Highest paid employee divided by lowest paid employee sets the payroll tax rate for the whole business.
Nah, companies found in violation of this should have their business licenses revoked, and the company dissolved.
They don’t give a shit about taxes or fines. They will care about the company ceasing to exist.
They could, but a lot of idiot children decided not to support the party that would have done that because unnamed randos on the interwebs told them not to. So that’s not going to happen. Again.
Not sure exactly which country you’re referring to, but in the USA the Democratic Party absolutely would not do that, which is precisely why they lost. If they had accepted the popularity of Bernie Sanders in 2016, maybe. But the party decided not to go that direction.
Their next presidential nominee is probably Gavin Newsom, who grew up in private school and best friends with Oil money billionaires - the Getty family.
This is so fucking tiresome.
I concur
I think 5 is maybe an over-ambitious goal.
I don’t really mind a 50:1 cap, or even a 100:1 cap. I can understand how experienced leadership of a large scale multinational corporation should be compensated more than 5x the amount of a 16 year old part time cashier in a town of 2200 people.
Even think about it from an age demographic/experience point of view. How much more should someone make doing the same job for 40 years than the new hire with no experience? In a lot of fields, I don’t feel like it would be unfair for that scale to go 4:1. Now factor that into the consideration of the varying different positions, the ratio has got to be higher.
And in the face of abhorrent 2100:1 ratios, I think a 100:1 ratio is low enough to make a meaningful difference and high enough that no one can sensibly argue against it.
I think 5 is maybe an over-ambitious goal.
Maybe, but I’m OK with being ambitious.
I can understand how experienced leadership of a large scale multinational corporation should be compensated more than 5x the amount of a 16 year old part time cashier in a town of 2200 people.
I can’t. Large scale multination corporations shouldn’t exist. But that’s a separate issue ultimately.
How much more should someone make doing the same job for 40 years than the new hire with no experience? In a lot of fields, I don’t feel like it would be unfair for that scale to go 4:1.
A company hiring somebody with 40 years of experience should be paying towards the higher end of the 1:5 ratio. It would ensure far more of the wealth goes to those who actually provide value.
If you want 100:1 you start negotiating at 1:1
This person negotiates.
This has to include part time workers. There is no way the median salary of ROSS is only 8k.
Yea, even at the bare minimum federal wage of 7.25 that’s still like 13k/Yr
They wouldn’t have those employees be full time because then they would need to pay benefits.
Very true. As a ridiculously underpaid former general manager of a popular pizza place, I can confirm. After the ACA passed I was instructed by my masters to hire more people and give them no more than 25 hours a week. Top performers were given 32 hours a week because we needed to call them in when shit got crazy and they would get close to 40. Nobody gets overtime ever. I worked 50-70 plus all the work I did from home like scheduling and product orders, plus being on call constantly for questions or coverage. All for 36k a year, the federal salary minimum to not get paid overtime.
Luckily we didn’t have to stick to the 25 hours thing because turnover was already nuts and nobody but the truly desperate will deal with that.
Speaking of desperation, my wife was in physical therapy school, I walked to work and we had a truly shithole apartment with roaches and bedbugs. I didn’t know I could do better due to untreated mental illness and other things. These bitch motherfuckers want everyone to have the mentality I did.
I rant about this a lot.
What’s the font size to squint ratio?
Yes. That’s one crazy-ugly infographic.
Doesn’t appear to be any correlation with the success or revenue of the company really. They just do whatever they want.
Could you please try again with more pixels?
Also can’t read it
Check other comments, some apps are having trouble with it.
deleted by creator
As a CEO id be stupid to get a salary. Dividends and stocks are much better tax-wise. Well maybe id get a smaller salary for the advantages in retirement and tax-free accounts and everything, but not much more than whats needed.
Stock grants are taxed as regular income.
Edit: downvotes from people who have no idea how stock, compensation, or taxes work, apparently.
Rsus have to vest and then they’re taxed when they drop to your account.
That is correct. It’s the same as paying taxes on each paycheck, not when your salary is promised.
Yeah people don’t seem to understand taxes wrt stock at all. RSUs are definitely taxed!
Only thing I can think of is they’re thinking of options? Afaik those can be advantageous, tax-wise, because you are taxed when you exercise, not when they’re granted or when they vest (this is my understanding — I could be wrong).
Options are basically just a special price you get to pay for stock. There’s another concept called “stock appreciation rights” in which shares are granted at a given strike price, and taxation only occurs on the price difference upon exercise (sale).
I thought founders usually get all their shares upon founding the company when it’s worth next to nothing. Is that not how it works?
Who was talking about founders?
Founders usually end up in C-suite positions. That sounds like what independantiste was thinking about.
Maybe in Europe
I’m talking about the US, sweetie.
Thank you for the service
Search the Internet for RSU tax liability in the US. It’s taxed as supplemental income and is subject to withholding.
Are you thinking of options? That’s different — “stock grant” afaik almost always refers to an RSU grant/vest.
I mean, you still have to have some money to survive day to day life.
I wouldn’t want my entire income to be based on the company’s performance and the whims of the stock market.
Could someone explain Airbnb? Everyone has the same salary?
Brian Chesky, the CEO, gets an annual bonus of around the average of all employees salary. This is completely irrelevant as he is a co-founder and owns 10.6% of the company or around 67 million shares. So at the most recent share price that’s $9.17 billion, at least on paper.
Such arrangements are common among tech companies.
Very likely the pay comes in different streams than the actual salary
Yes I don’t think this image accounts for the different ways the rich are paid.
I know it’s weird, because they have a lot of call center employees that handle various situations. Maybe those aren’t counted in the graphic for some reason, because there’s no way a call center employee is making close a quarter million dollars.
Let’s talk about how the ‘negligible’ difference in pay of approximately 50k is more than a highly qualified teacher would make with ten years of experience in my state.
Maybe it’s rounded down
Shouldn’t it be no more than ten or something?
Savateev suggests(for director to teacher pay ratio in his education system reform), if I remember correctly, no more than 3 times lowest paid worker in top 80% of highest-paid workers.
Who is Savateev?
He is a mathematician and a youtuber(lectures, solving math problems). He is, uh, not without quirks: says he is religious and says that he thinks current goverment is able to reform education. Either because he doesn’t want to fall from window or because he really thinks so.
You probably won’t find many references to him on english-speaking sites.
What does this actually say if most billionaires like Musk or Bezos pay themselves only a symbolic income of about 1$ (if any)?
Even most of the low ones are outrageous. I’d cap that at 5, maybe 10 on a generous day. Including bonuses and stock options.
Low res graphic
Did you click on it?
It comes up high res for me.
Hmm… seriously doesn’t come across on my phone. Perhaps I’ll check on my laptop
Is the red alphabet logo as in Google’s parent company? I don’t remember that logo being red…
It was introduced in 2015 apparently: https://commons.m.wikimedia.org/wiki/File:Alphabet_Inc_Logo_2015.svg
Alphabet Inc was also created in 2015.
Huh… Dunno why I don’t remember it being all red…
Honestly, I don’t really remember it either. It looks like the Oracle logo too me.
