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Yeah man, we all understood that the first time around when it was called Fern Gully.
Like Avatar if you want but like… it is not a deep piece of media with hard-to-discern messaging. Shit is pretty clear.
Fucking Tarzan was fighting evil white exploiters of pristine Africa in books back in the early 1900s.
A good white saviour from the evil white people, because the indigenous can’t do it for themselves. Just like in Ferngully and Avatar.
I can’t decide if I should post the “wait, it’s all the failures of capitalism?” or “wait, it’s all systemic racism?” meme, cuz it’s wait it’s all both (always has been).
Explore, exploit, exterminate.
Satisfactory music starts playing
So… We manage to master space travel. We manage to master interstellar travel. We eventually find a planet with suitable environment for sustaining our species. And we just overlook it.
Can someone explain me the reasoning behind this?
Sci-fi to the side, there are more minerals available - readily - on asteroids and barren planets than anywhere else. Why go hopping around looking for habitable planets, to the reason of 1 out of who knows how many, to then strip mine it?
The resource being extracted on the avatar planet was unobtanium.
It was only available on that planet, precisely so intelligent people like you can’t say “why not mine barren rocks instead”?
There are exactly zero minerals available inside planets that are unavailable on asteroids.
Sci-fi will be sci-fi but can we go back to the time it was at least well thought? Can’t hurt. If the objective of the movie was to make social criticism, it didn’t need to go to such lenghts.
And it was a boring movie; failed to captivate me.
You’re intelligent. Or at least, well read/educated.
I didn’t say it was a good plot-device. The entire movie was hamfisted from the world building through the dialog, the character development, and those hamfists evolved into bulldozers to bring the moral home.
The only thing it had going for it was the CGI… which was obsequious.
Regardless, it’s their fictional world. They designed it to be stupid and boring so they could make some sort of moral superiority bullshit statement about capitalism while grossing 2+ billion.
Also, I’m just gonna say it. It wasn’t even sci fi. sure, sure. it had ships and stuff. but that’s not what makes sci fi sci fi.
Usually, at this point, I would say even a broken clock is right twice a day, but I’m trying to get accostumed to receive a compliment, so I’ll instead say thank you for those kind words. And that we agree.
There are exactly zero minerals available inside planets that are unavailable on asteroids.
Crystallised urea
Nice to cross paths with you again!
I’ll grant that but what use for crystalized urea is there? Urea I know a few. And if we already know how to cultivate diamonds and other artificial gems, why bother mining for that?
Drag was making an allegorical point. Perhaps Unobtanium results from an organic process. In the second movie, the capitalists are killing whales for a substance in their brains that makes people immortal. Can’t find that on an asteroid.
We can save mental effort and just go for the Dune series at this point. What is the point in that? In considering the advances in modern chemistry, there are ever few organic compounds that can not be synthesized.
I fall back to my original thought: is well thought sci-fi so hard to achieve nowadays? If seems there is a fixation about misery and destruction nowadays.
I fall back to my original thought: is well thought sci-fi so hard to achieve nowadays? If seems there is a fixation about misery and destruction nowadays.
considering that mass media will slap a space ship into anything and call it “Science Fiction”… yes, actually. Because they’re idiots who will only copy what’s already been done because it’s a reliable way to make money.
Avatar does have some good science fiction like the idea of a planetary hivemind being worshipped as a god. The Na’vi religion is literally true, it just seems false to humans who don’t know anything. That’s very different to Dune, where the Fremen religion is true because people like Paul’s mum make it true.
You realized I just opted for having a divergent view on the subject, right?
It seems more like intentionally missing the main point of the comic.
What do you mean? Communists didn’t mine minerals and didn’t exploit indigenous people? Lol…
I dont get it either. This is not about capitalism, this is about human nature of mindless expansion and exploitation…
That’s right. For example, Australian communists lived in balance with nature for 60,000 years. Then capitalists came and started breaking stuff.
I guess those megafauna who vanished about 59,500 years ago were really messing with the balance.
Regardless of megafaunata, just by being in Australia, humans became an invasive species and did all sorts of damage that invasive species do.
Worse, indigenous Australians brought the dingo with them. Two very intelligent predators where two didn’t exist before did a lot of damage. Colonizing Europeans also did a lot of damage and nothing that the indigenous people in Australia did justifies what Europeans (basically just the British, let’s be fair) did, but pretending that indigenous humans aren’t as flawed as all other humans does them a disservice. It does not help indigenous people to put them up on pedestals and treat them as noble savages.
https://www.unimelb.edu.au/newsroom/news/2020/may/mysteries-of-megafauna-extinction-unlocked
the team found that extreme environmental change was the most likely cause of extinction, not humans.
Aboriginal Elders have told us we are a reflection of the Country: if the land is sick, so are we. If the land is healthy (or punyu), so are we. Wik First Nations scholar Tyson Yunkaporta says our collective wellbeing can only be sustained through a life of communication with a sentient landscape and all things on it.
You wanna go tell Tyson he’s being racist against his own people?
deleted by creator
Are you Tyson?
The totem system from the Countries I am from allows for the person to be the knowledge holder of the animal or plant they are given or born into. Within your family group (also known as mob) you are the person that is responsible for its survival and use. For example, if you are given the Kangaroo, people in your mob or Country would come to you to gain permission to hunt the Kangaroo for food or clothing. If you had observed the Kangaroo having high population numbers you could allow them to be hunted to feed families, and on the flip side if population numbers were low, you would not allow this. This totem system was vital to survival of Indigenous people, but also ensured that biodiversity was sustained. It is considered the social responsibility of the community to preserve the environment. By having this relationship and responsibility with a totem creates lifelong physical, spiritual, and emotional connections to the environment. With my personal totem being a Koala, I have dedicated my research interests to understanding more about this animal and advocating for its conservation and preservation. I have focused my early career research on understanding the Koalas diet selection and its relationship to habitat selection.
https://oxsci.org/conservation-through-the-eyes-of-indigenous-australian-culture/
Go tell Teresa that her tribe’s environmental management strategies are fake and racist because they make aboriginals look too smart
Are you Teresa?
Are you? You’re the one claiming racism because drag listens to Aboriginal elders. Drag’s got sources for what drag says, and it seems like you don’t. So you’re just making stuff up.
Besides, the noble savage trope is about thinking indigenous societies were pure an untainted by evil. Aboriginal Australians knew what evil was. They had policies in place within their governments to prevent ecological devastation. That’s not innocence, it’s technology. Aboriginals aren’t savages and drag didn’t say they are. You’re the one denying their advanced environmental policies. Sounds like you’re the one calling them savages.
Literally Satisfactory
Avatr is about capitalism
That wasn’t glaringly obvious to everyone?
There’s someone arguing otherwise in this very thread
Like, to absolutely everyone? This ranks up there with “breathing is good.”
you forget the kind of people who complain that wolfenstein games or the x-men animated series “became” political
Some people are dense enough that “the point” is the name of a baseball bat you have to go get to get it across.
It was also about the poor soldiers getting used to further capitalism.
Honestly, though…. That military wasn’t very credible. Half their aircraft you could disable by dumping buckets of pebbles into the fans.
Holy shit! Avatar is about capitalism? How did I miss that?! I better rewatch it and see if it’s a recurring theme.
Wait until you learn about its subtle ecological message!
That’s just Evil, if we build an industrial park there where will the
slavesforced laborwork bit*hes*Due to recent very public events our Public relations officer has been sent on leave with pay instead Nataly will complete this statement.
That’s just Evil, if we build an industrial park there where will the (Checks Notes) Employees park there cars?
Nataly needs a spelling-checker. Also, a quick tutorial on comma splices wouldn’t be wasted.
You know: grade school stuff.
Thanks, I’ll remember that when I go to school… oh wait, I’m not in school anymore. I’m gainfully employed, get paid plenty, and nobody cares. Huh, it’s almost like the hyper-educated imposition placed on us by society is simply a form of control, gatekeeping, and self-aggrandizing and the people who spent more time studying than forming relationships wasted their time and are now disgruntled because they have to work harder than those who aren’t overly anal grammar Nazis.
Satisfactory
Factorio.
The factory must grow.
I like to describe the aliens that attack you in factorio as environmentalists.
Pollution actually makes the bugs stronger. Maybe they like pollution and want to go eat it all up.
They get stronger because they mutate to fight back
That’s not how evolution works. A species evolves to get stronger in battle if the weak ones die in battle. A species evolves stronger lungs if the weak ones die of lung cancer. Dying of lung cancer doesn’t make a species better fighters.
Drag is correct, but it’s fantasy evolution we’re talking about
Maybe. Or maybe they like the pollution. Maybe with better resource availability, they’re able to spend more energy on growing bigger and stronger without threatening survival.
They hate that fresh, artisanal air
I just got done with an 8 hour factorio session so this meme resonated
The factory must grow
I feel so bad cutting trees and draining lakes 😔
But your corporate overlords demand it, sadness isn’t efficient, get back to work!
But really they did a great job with commentary. People still say “why can’t we get green energy in the game?”. Because that’s not the point. This is raw capitalism. You’re dropped on a pristine planet, destroy the environment, clear it of all natural resources. It’s &meant_ to make you feel guilty. Maybe look around outside
i feel like the enviroment is into that shit
consume
I thought we were saving kittens and puppies…
I can picture in my mind a world without war, a world without hate. And I can picture us attacking that world, because they’d never expect it.
- Jack Handey
Does this imply communism wouldn’t extract resources?
That’s what I was wondering. Capitalists didn’t invent exploitation of nature, it just so happened that its worldwide adoption coincided with unprecedented technological advances. There’s quite a few examples of historical societies that exploited nature as much as they could and suffered for it.
Businesses under capitalism aren’t required to pay for the externalities of their decisions. In a democratic economy, the people affected by corporate decisions would have a say in those decisions. It’s reasonable to assume that people want to breathe clean air and continue to have food and water, so they’d support policies that do that.
Sure, but none of the economies we actually have (or recently had) work like that.
Someone had better have a communist revolution so we do have one like that, then.
Judging by the communist revolutions we had so far, I’m not holding my breath for that.
I’m torn, because there’s an idea that industrial capital only knows how to consume and destroy what it touches. And there’s ample evidence to that effect.
But there’s this other more naive notion that life never changes, species don’t compete for habitat, and doing anything to alter the local ecology is this unforgivable sin. This, despite the fact that everything in the area is itself a product of eons of speciation and evolution and carnivorization.
The impulse to preserve has to be balanced with the expectation for change. The goal should be symbiosis, not stasis.
The issue is that you’re changing the ecosystems and environments so much that all those eons of evolution are simply lost. The only other times this happens is during natural catastrophes. Sure, in the long run this allows new life forms to take the old ones places, but it’s still a massive loss of diversity and evolutionary knowledge - and unnecessary suffering for millions of living beings.
When species compete for a habitat, they rarely destroy it - and those species that do either don’t survive for long, or they wipe out large swaths. We’re actively killing almost anything in our habitats, and destroying them for almost all previous species.
The idea that nature is precious and must be preserved is human-centric.
Trees caused an extinction event when they appeared by absorbing all the carbon dioxyde and radically changing the atmosphere. But we feel bad when we’re the ones doing it
Don’t forget about the part from the intro (might have been cut from the theatrical release):
They can fix a spine, if you have the money. But not from a VA check. Add $5 and you get yourself a cup of coffee.
The realization that we probably wouldn’t change how we are make me a bit glad we missed the chance to be a spacefaring civilization and are screwed here. The universe didn’t need that, one planet ruined is enough.
I’ve found peace recently thinking about our blue planet. We may cause chaos for a bit, but in the grand scheme, it’ll be fine. The rivers will run, the oceans will be blue, plants and animals will eventually, over tens of thousands of years and longer will be fine.
Humanity is fucked, we destroyed our chances because we as a society could never get over our greed, but the problems we cause will be temporary. Over time the planet itself will heal. We just won’t be here for it.
That being said, it’s why I’m choosing not to have kids.
