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- cross-posted to:
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Now let’s do it to an industry that deserves it. Cigarettes. Sugar. Opioids.
Eh, I’d say that there are entities in the Gaming industry that definitely deserve it.
Let this set a precedent so we can topple the rest.
“Parents like me often mistakenly think it is a failure on their part when their child becomes addicted, but through this litigation we hope to shine a light on these companies’ reprehensible actions, deceit, and manipulation of our children for their own financial gain.”
Yep, blame someone else like every other parent.
I’d hazard it’s both. There are plenty of microtransaction models that explicitly exploit addictive behaviors (see gatcha).
On top of that, some companies handle more benign models better. Grinding Gear Games will lock your account from buying things if you ask them to without question, to help people that struggle with that sort of thing. Many other companies (I want to say Blizzard, but I don’t have a source) will throw up their hands and say “the system can’t do that”, when it’s not hard to implement. One enable flag is all you need (I’m aware implementation takes more, but just one variable can control a users ability to make purchases)
And some parents are also more than happy to have kids out of their hair by any means necessary.
This smells like the McDonald’s coffee story to me. A headline can make it sound absurd, but I suspect a deeper look isn’t a bad thing.
Edit: as for non money based addiction, yeah that ball can go back to the parents court imo
The McDonald’s coffee story is kinda interesting to bring up here, as it may not make the point you think you are making. It’s important to remember that, at the time, it was standard policy for McDonald’s to be serving hot coffee at ~190 °F. Far hotter than people would serve themselves, and dangerously hot to be handling in general. If I spill my coffee on me at work, I don’t end up with third-degree burns - just a stained shirt.
Not only, in that decade prior McDonald’s had received ~700 reports of people being burned this way.
The lawsuit determined that McDonalds was knowingly serving to people a dangerous product that had the capacity to cause significant, material harm and gave no warning to its inherent danger.
So, to circle back to the comparison here, are video companies creating products they know are addictive to the degree that material harm is caused and no reasonable person would have the wherewithal to foresee those addictive properties unless they were prominently displayed on packaging material prior to their purchase? I don’t think it’s quite like the McDonald’s coffee suit in terms of the intensity of [alleged]harm, but maybe in terms of how [allegedly] widespread it is? There’s more than sufficient academic material that sheds light on the addictive properties of some aspects of implementation of lootboxes and modern gaming rewards.
That being said, it’s foolish the leave this problem to be solved only from the industry or regulation. Shouldn’t it be enough for companies that include lootboxes or whatever somewhat addictive reward system just put a disclaimer or something? Parents shouldn’t be expected to keep up-to-date on reward mechanisms that encourage replay and enable additional monetization, but it should be more apparent if such mechanisms are used so parents can stop and say “Probably don’t want little Timmy playing this game…I remember what happened with the PokeMon cards” etc. etc.
McDonald’s Sources:
https://www.enjuris.com/blog/resources/mcdonalds-hot-coffee-lawsuit/ https://www.rd.com/article/hot-coffee-lawsuit/ https://www.morrisdewett.com/personal-injury-blog/2022/march/mcdonald-s-hot-coffee-case-the-real-story-why-it/ https://www.thedailymeal.com/1393392/infamous-mcdonalds-coffee-story-explained/EU Commission Report:
https://www.europarl.europa.eu/RegData/etudes/STUD/2020/652727/IPOL_STU(2020)652727_EN.pdfLove me some sources, thank you.
I was bringing it up in the context of “McDonald’s definitely did something wrong”, though I didn’t state that well.
I agree, specific damage is iffy, but the widespread is more alarming. The snippet that someone posted from the court documents shove this into parental neglect territory in my head, but we’ll see what happens. I’m neither a lawyer nor a parent so I’m strictly in the armchair on this.
There’s something to be said for some kind of regulation in regards to known addictive mechanisms and that corporations have proven time and again they can’t be trusted to handle it themselves (in every industry). This just might not be the case to drive it home
- As a result of gaming addiction, G.D. specifically has experienced severe emotional distress, physical injuries, diminished social interactions, a drop in grades and inability to attend school, depression, lack of interest in other hobbies and sports, withdrawal symptoms such as rage, anger, and physical outburst, and diagnoses of ADHD and Dyslexia.
- As a result of G.D. 's gaming addiction, G.D. has required an Individualized Educational Plan (“IEP”), out-patient counseling, and Focalin medication to control impulsivity and lack of control.
- G.D.'s gaming addiction has also had negative effects on their relationship with their father, Thomas Dunn
Just skimming the court documents. Why did the parents let it get that out of hand?
But yeah gatchas and other micro transactions are rampant and awful. Even with that though parents can set limits and control spending/time played for kids with consoles and phones. Feel bad for the kid.
Ooof. Yeah, that is real bad. I’ll happily pitchfork a big company, but that’s firmly in parental neglect territory.
How is it that video games are causing dyslexia? That seems like a stretch.
Jesus Christ, that kid has mental issues not gaming addiction. Get him a therapist and remove the consoles from the home but at this point they may have done more damage by ignoring his symptoms for so many years and just want to focus the blame elsewhere.
Fuck the parents.
Also fuck the deliberately abusive monetization practices.
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Is is really odd. Roblox literally breaks the law, but it’s Microsoft and Epic being sued.
They are the one that controls finances in the household and what their kids own.
That doesn’t mean that we shouldn’t regulate predatory practices. Many video games are built on social media and gambling models designed with intentionally addictive features. In not talking about fun features, I’m talking about addictive features. There are panels at game designer conferences you can listen to about this stuff.
It doesn’t. But, doesn’t excuse parental responsibility either, since they are the one with the final deciding factor. Especially over monetary access.
That’s why the kid was distressed and the relationship with the father went south, because he said “no” and tried to help his child. That’s the point when kids start to sell their belongings to school mates, steal from parents purses or take their credit cards or spent all money they make with a job on the game and even when they have no money to spent, their minds are in the game all the time and family life is 99% fighting about screen time.
This is not solely about parents not restricting money, this is game developers and publishers hiring psychologists to find ways to make their games as addictive as possible vs. normal people and their children, a multi billion industry vs. ordinary customers. To blame this solely on parents is just wrong.
They probably allowed the kid a decent amount of screen time and some money to spent, like normal parents do. That their kid got pulled into an addiction by an industry that does everything possible to make that happen did happen over time, hard to notice until it is already a problem.
Most people blaming only the parents do not have children and have watched their child cry for days because it can’t have the skin “all the other kids have” and therefore gets bullied in school. All these games on purpose work with group pressure on top of addictive game and loot mechanics. They prey especially on neurodiverse children and adults, FOMO and more.
If you read the court documents this child is clearly on the spectrum, the parents ignored his symptoms for years and just allowed tons of unrestricted screen access. Then when the consequences of their actions hit them they shift the blame elsewhere because it couldn’t possibly be their shitty parenting. This has been going on for decades, first it was comic books, then it was rock music, then it was violent television, now it’s video games.
While this is a reasonable take, it ignores the fact that many modern video games (unlike the other things you listed) are specifically designed to be incredibly addictive while the marketing and PR does everything to belie this fact.
Both things can be true.
I don’t care if modern video games peddle amphetamines. The fact is parents have endless amounts of information at their fingertips at all times to research said games before buying it for their children. Instead of doing their due diligence as a parent they pawn little Johnny off to the TV or Tablet with no care in the world about what they are consuming because it’s easier than parenting.
It’s called entertainment. It makes as much sense to mix up addiction with games, as with NFL, football, TV, movies etc.
There’s also been a rapid increase in sport gambling spots and sponsorship. It plays on emotions and a feeling of belonging, so a pretty apt comparison.
What about gambling? Just entertainment or possibly addicting?
Valve should be on top of the list for the predatory gambling marketed for kids.
Oh to be a privileged first world parent.
