- cross-posted to:
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- cross-posted to:
- [email protected]
This article is from November 17th, so a couple days old, but I found it worthwhile.
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To be criminally charged for this is absolutely insane. The fact everyone knows he’s a lowlife and his name is out there is enough.
Yeah for me the world has gone too soft. I don’t see a crime to be honest there worth going to court for. It was utterly stupid and disgusting what he did but I feel like going to court was too far for it.
Let the club ban him and the media report on it but it feels excessive as he’s already lost his job and any future employer will see what he’s done with any background check.
People should be allowed to make mistakes and learn from them, I’m sure he’s not a bad person at all just did a stupid thing and now will pay for the rest of his life.
He got a suspended sentence basically just saying don’t do it again
Not really, a suspended sentence still counts as a prison sentence in terms of his criminal record
Only for 15 months until it becomes spent
I’m sure he’s not a bad person
Good people don’t tend to mock children who died from cancer, just saying.
Anyone can make a mistake in the heat of the moment with alcohol involved. Imagine one mistake defining you for the rest of your life. If he’s acknowledged the mistake learned from it and makes him a better person then that’s much more important than villifying him and going to court over such a thing.
I don’t agree with a criminal offence and going to court over the matter.
Look at the thread about Grealish yesterday, people saying he’s such a lovable guy yet he drove and wrote his car off while absolutely steaming.
I feel like you maybe wouldn’t be saying this if you were the kids family.
It’s a public order offence though? And his sentence was suspended. I don’t get the issue.
Suppose that’s a fair cop but the wider question is how do you stop an idiot being an idiot?
While what the dude did is terrible. And the football team banning him from their stadium fair. I really can’t get behind it being illegal. This may be my American sensibilities but he should not face criminal charges for speaking. The team can ban him sure but jail? Seriously?
He’s not in jail. It’s a suspended sentence.
tbh I forgot that mascots in soccer are the little kids that walk out with the players, I thought some guy was making fun of a grown man in a glorified furry suit
Am I gonna cry for this moron? Not one tear.
Is this punishment reasonable? Fuck, I just don’t know man…
Is the punishment unreasonable? Probably.
Do I care about someone who thought it would be funny to make fun of a child who dies of cancer? Absolutely not, they can throw the book at him for all I care
100% suspended sentence is correct. What he did is bad but he shouldn’t be taking up a cell in overflowing prisons.
Suspended essentially means no more public order offences so hopefully behaves
He isn’t though. It’s a suspended sentence.
What I don’t know is does he have a criminal record now?
Absolutely, yes.
He got a 3-month custodial sentence. Convictions resulting in custodial sentences shorter than 12 months become ‘spent’ 12 months after the sentence ends. So, his conviction will be ‘unspent’ for the next 15 months.
While his conviction is ‘unspent’ he still only needs to tell an organisation about it (e.g. for a job application) if they ask him, but it will show up on any DBS - basic, standard or enhanced.
After it becomes ‘spent’ it will only show up on a standard or enhanced DBS check. He only needs to tell a potential employer, university or college about it if they ask him to and they tell him the role needs a standard or enhanced DBS check and it has not been removed (‘filtered’) from DBS certificates (as it resulted in a custodial sentence, it can’t ever be filtered).
It’s against the law for an employer, university or college to refuse someone a role because they’ve got a spent conviction or caution, unless it makes them unsuitable for the role (i.e. a driving conviction might make them unsuitable for a job as a driving instructor).
Well since he was convicted of course he does.
I’m with you tbh. For context: Here in Germany this is the reason that offenders have a right to privacy, so their faces and their full names aren’t allowed to be shown / named (in german media).
This regulation has its own issues imo, but makes sense in this case: The offender gets punished, but they don’t have to suffer their whole life for it.
It seems every week I see the UK criminally charging people for disgusting and offensive chants, gestures etc.
They are disgusting acts but to criminally charge for this is insanity and a slippery slope to the Government deciding what you can and can’t say.
What would be your solution?
Why is insanity when it’s a breach of the Public Order Act 1986? This is nothing new. I’m not sure I understand how anyone is complaining.
We think we’re American.
Yeah, in a country constantly being americanised with its media, sport, etc. the biggest one is that everyone seems to think we have free speech laws like the USA all of a sudden
Are you opposed to said free speech laws? Thats something the US gets right.
The government represents the people. We’ve had this laws for over a hundred years.
We aren’t America, we don’t view free speech in the same way.
Why though?
The law isn’t new, we’ve had lots of iterations of it over the centuries.
Also, freedom of speech isn’t freedom of consequences for saying it or doing it.
Slippery slope? These laws have existed for longer than both of us have been alive.
And there’s probably a reason a colony of yours was so focused on being able to speak their mind without punishment don’t you think?
People have got in trouble for “offensive” reddit posts before
https://www.liverpoolecho.co.uk/news/liverpool-news/watch-moment-web-troll-who-11918656
I had a really bad experience recently with drugs and started yelling extremely offensive things to police when they came to help me. I wasn’t charged with any of that - I did make a very bad false claim that’s specifically being investigated, but it’s nothing to do with how offensive it was. One of the things I thought they would do me for is writing a note on my computer for them to find (it involved ra*e). They just asked where that stuff came from and I openly told them I wanted to say the most vile things imaginable but they treated me well and listened.
The government has absolutely zero say in this scenario
Being a total knobhead shouldn’t get you charged as a criminal.
it’s an actual joke what western society has become - not for one second are his actions fine, they’re disgusting and vile.
but where do u draw the line between that and making a 9/11 meme on the internet?
So let’s say you went to the NY Fire Department, showed them pictures of their dead colleagues while having a right good laugh. Everything fine here?
While I don’t feel like he should have been criminally charged, I don’t feel bad for him it’s a dickhead thing to do and I don’t even know how you could make a funny joke from that
The idea of him potentially doing jail time for this is a bit silly but I’m definitely not opposed to the unpaid work/community service part of the punishment.
I feel like community service and just compensation for the victim is good, jail time for speech just isnt a good idea unless it actively puts someone or a group of people in danger
Man dickhead, jail harsh
I’ve never understood this. Why should harm be ignored in law? Would you really feel free in a country where you just had to allow someone to say what they wanted whenever they wanted?
I think serious threats towards people is the only form of speech that deserves investigation from the police. He was a cunt for doing that but it can be a slippery slope imprisoning someone on the basis of them being a cunt lol
It wasn’t even a joke, it was just “one of your fans, a kid, died, here’s his photo” like what the fuck.
The only difference between the UK and China is the degree of surveillance and control, although with the ULEZ cameras and people getting arrested for standing on streets thinking wrong thoughts the UK is fighting valiantly to close the distance.
My dude, are you still trying to push this narrative that the UK is a police state?
Just take the L and move on.
You didn’t look up the definition, you are embarrassed. I get it.
Oh no, catching criminals, what a terrible thing!
It’s just banter
Sad life if you find mocking a dead child banter
They hanged him?
UK is finished smh 🤦♂️
What a fucking moron.
Basically torn his own world apart for literally no reason at all.
For anyone who can’t click on the link, in doing this utterly fucking stupid thing, he has:
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Been given a 5-year stadium ban.
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Had to pay a £154 victim surcharge.
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Had to pay £85 in prosecution costs.
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12-week suspended prison sentence (suspended for up to 18 months).
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Ordered to do 200 hours of unpaid work.
What a fucking moron.
It even says in the article that he’s had to move out of his parents’ home because of the backlash his actions caused, and apparently his relationship with his partner has been affected too.
Can’t believe someone would willingly do something like that anyway, such a stupid and unkind thing to do, and that’s even before you get to how fucking stupid it is to do these days anyway, especially when we live in a world where everything is recorded.
That’s not even the start of the repercussions. Finding work before the conviction is spent, price and availability of things like car insurance. Security clearances. Travel.
Also lost his job as a window fitter.
And the job after that, was thrown out of his parents’ home and had problems with his partner. According to this article, he seemed remorseful during the court proceedings and afterwards, so hopefully he learned a lesson, and many other onlookers.
Chat shit get banged I guess…
The guy is 32, his parents are probably happy to have an excuse to make him move out.
One suspects they’re the problem.
I knew this guy reasonably well at school, although that is a long time ago now he was always a bit of an idiot but I was surprised by this because he should know better than most about how a the death of a child can affect family and friends.
When he was around 15-16 Dale lost his best friend in an awful traffic collision where he was hit by a coach while crossing the dual carriageway outside school. It was fucking awful, it had a huge impact on his friends and family including Dale. So I thought he of all people would know better.
This is a different thing because Dale apparently used a picture of this kid who died with cancer to mock opposing fans, but I will say I do know people whose humor hits different because of histories like that. Like I was watching an event on TV with someone else and a similar story to Bradley Lowery came on - they turned to me and were like “dying of cancer? Jesus Christ, what a pussy.” Which was hilarious in the moment but also because I knew they’d had cancer before and their life was very much disrupted because of the death of someone they loved of cancer when they were a child.
Obviously, the big difference between these two situations is the audience and the intent. I don’t mean to say that Dale wasn’t being a complete dickhead. But sometimes, the more personal it is to someone, the more likely they are to make those comments.
suspended prison sentence for that? 200hrs of unpaid work? lol jesus, thats excessive
I think the fact that he printed something out at home shows it wasn’t a complete spur of the moment thing and that’s why its a bit harsher.
When youre at home whipping up something to make fun of a child of cancer, how does nothing in your brain go off telling you to stop?
What, so you thought it was just harmless bantz?
Reading through the list of consequences, the social consequences were probably a sufficient deterrent. Losing jobs and banned from football matches (the football association being distinct from the government).
Not a fan of governments getting involved in prosecuting speech. I think social sanctions and consequences are more appropriate, even for heinous speech like this.
The odd thing is, what are these social consequences? Getting abuse and threats to the point of moving home is also something that needs acting on, surely. Or are they just deciding who can and can’t have abuse aimed at them?
I mean they probably would act upon it but things like that are extremely easy to do anonymously, compared to being stupid enough to do what this guy did at a football match
Justice imo. You don’t mock a child who lost a battle to cancer. No excuses for that. Fucker got what he deserved.
Hope he enjoys the 200 hours unpaid graft too.
It’s not justice though my dude, the punishment doesn’t fit the crime tbh.
Shouldn’t even been a crime for the authorities to prosecute. This was something that should of been settled between the team and him. Ban him from attendance. This is censorship whether we like the results or not.
Freedom of speech doesn’t exist in the UK and it never has. The right to freedom of expression is subject to a range of restrictions in UK law, including the: Malicious Communications Act 1988 and the Communications Act 2003, which criminalises “indecent or grossly offensive” messages and threats.
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“alcohol contributed to the offence, which was “out of character”.”
Vile