Neat, a study that doesn’t poll what Ukrainians are willing to give up in exchange for the end to the war.

So basically worthless for this conversation

Oooh yeah Mr. Whitey White

Cool we’re doing racism now, well this was a complete waste of my time.

Enjoy paying Joe to renew your license I guess

Oooh yeah. “You’re wrong and I’m right” defense, amazing. Someone who’s never encountered anyone working in a big company, reporting for duty at online bickering. Doesn’t know a single thing about how it works in a large corporation or in bureaucracy, but is full of opinions. Gewd jerb there.

We can make up scenarios all day where someone doesn’t do there job, but thus far the system works. So stop being out of touch with reality?

Oh sure, the supervisor is gonna surely take your side, whom they talk to for a couple minutes, instead of Joe’s whom they knew for ten years. Delusion is really strong with this one.

You gotta stop thinking of this as a one off. No I don’t expect Joe to be fired on the spot, never said I did. If he’s consistently failing to do his job he will be fired.

Again, are you imagining the legislature adopting laws like ‘Fire Joe Schmuck from his job at the DMV’? Are you actually familiar with any single law ever passed by the legislature in the history of the legislature, or are you entirely fanfictioning it from your delusions?

I’ve explained about 4 times how the system works. Maybe don’t be so fucking dense? If you want me to explain again drop the insults (I’ll do the same) and we can try again.

This displays how you never ever worked or dealt with an established employee at any long-standing job whatsoever. You’re completely ignorant as to how long-standing employees can both have invaluable working experience, and display profound disdain for their customers. Absolute zero of your life experience is at all valuable at any jobs that require any skills gained at work.

This is not a coherent argument. I used your own words. This is what you stated not me. You clearly have no understanding how government employment functions.

Oh look at Mr. Government Participation here. They pay their federal, state, and local, amazing. They register their car every year. This will surely get them an audience with their council member, indubitably. Unlike everyone else in their twenty-thousand Karens town. They will complain about Joe Schmoe and will indubitably listened to by Jack Jackson.

This isn’t what you fucking asked. You wanted to know why I deal with the government so much I answered. If you cared about a consistent argument you’d realize that having to slide a hundo each time to get these things processed would be expensive.

And yes I would easily get the help of a city councilman that’s how these things work. They’re not that busy because the system works.

Again, if you can dial your council boy and say “Hey this Joe Schmoe is being a trouble, could you ditch him” and hear anything other than the busy tone at the other end, then you’re the whitest cracker to ever exist, and apparently your council man is really really poor if they do this for less than a hundred dollars.

You seem to have a fundamental misunderstanding. I don’t give a fuck if Joe has his job, and I’m not calling my city to get Joe fired. I’m calling to get whatever paperwork I have processed. Like I don’t know why you’ve become obsessed with Joe being fired, but I could care less.

If Joe is not doing his job eventually he will be fired or shuffled to a department where he can’t keep fucking up.

You seem to have entirely forgotten the argument and are now obsessed with getting Joe fired which was never the point. The point was would it be better to have to bribe officials. Which is just ridiculous to suggest when we have a functional system.

See you tell me it’s a joke then you keep making claims that aren’t entirely accurate. Idk what you want at this point

Unfortunately it’s hard to tell it’s a joke these days when my country is being an absolute shithole and doing these bad things.

You could have started by saying you meant it as a joke. Tone doesn’t translate to text

Do the rules specify that Joe must resolve any and all affairs in three business days?

Umm, no. You have yearly deadlines for things that you have to renew. Typically there’s a decent grace period and only a small fine if you fall out of compliance. It’s pretty easy for most stuff.

Ah, unlike every company where Claire is working for forty years despite pissing off every newbie with her slow and tedious ways. Whose side will the employer take, Karen Nobody’s who’s complaining or Joe’s who’s been at his position for years and knows all the ins and outs and who’s a second cousin once removed to the department chief? Reeeeealllly unfamiliar with the system there, the ones who say otherwise.

You can write fiction all day if you want to. Doesn’t change reality.

Still unclear as to how legislature is gonna legislate Joe out of his position.

They’re his boss at the end of the line. Anyway it’s not usually about firing Joe, it’s about getting the job done. Joe’s supervisor should fire him if he’s not doing his job. If it gets really bad the legislature could force the head of the agency to start firing people. Usually not necessary, but it’s doable.

What incentive does the head of the agency have to fire employees who have tons of experience in their positions? Is it like Trump firing everyone who disagrees with his views? Oh wait, this is precisely the argument that you tried to use in a rebuttal to me.

This isn’t even a coherent argument, nor what my point was at all. You asked who was appointed and I told you.

I’ll try to follow what you’re saying anyway. So in your mind these are extremely expirenced and invaluable employees, but also don’t do their jobs? Yeah that doesn’t make any sense

I don’t know why and what you’re doing with the government every day

I recieve mail through a government agency. Every year I pay my taxes, register my car, etc. For tax payments I deal with federal, state, and local. Everything else is just the normal stuff that comes up in life. Getting a marriage certificate, renewing a license, moving states causes re-registration, getting a passport.

All of these things were just simple and done correctly. Why would I want to pay a bribe instead of working with a functional system?

“a phone call and an email” is more privilege than most people in the US have.

It’s really not. Takes like 2 minutes to lookup your local government’s info. Frankly the percentage of people without internet access or phone access is very very low (thanks in part to government programs). Plus you can always go to city hall or the council meetings.

how you would solve Joe Schmoe at the local DMV

Easy you follow the rules. If they are breaking the rules you generally can get a supervisor to resolve it immediately. If that fails you can call your state representative. If that fails you can get a lawyer, but truthfully if the first two steps fail you’re almost certainly in the wrong.

almost the entirety of the bureaucratic apparatus from the neighborhood to the federal level is appointed

Employed is a better word. They can be fired if they are not doing their jobs easily enough (people who say otherwise are just unfamiliar with the system). They recieve regular reviews and have to compete for promotions. It’s a job. Who is their final boss at the top of the chain depends on if it’s local or state or federal. Local answers to the town council, state either answers to the governor or state legislature, and same for federal.

The only people that are appointed and hard to remove are usually the heads of agencies. They can set agendas, but that’s not really going to impact you going to the dmv or registering a buisness. And the majority of them are appointed every election

E.g. the DMV seems to be operated on the state level, and then who are you gonna petition for help?

So depends on state, but in my state the local DMV branches are ran entirely by the county. If you have an issue you either go up the chain within the DMV, contact your county representative, or contact your local state representative. Typically elected officials are good at handling these types of issues. I’ve known people that have had issues with their mail for example and the local federal congressman had a line dedicated entirely to dealing with these types of issues. They responded rather quickly.

I doubt it that your senator is gonna legislate for removal of Joe Schmoe from their position

Honestly I struggle to even think of an example where that would even be necessary. If someone is acting that badly usually their local supervisor will fire them before that point. But yes Senators do regularly intervene for their constituents.

As to your last point, which one is cheaper for you: slipping Joe a hundo or petitioning the council, the mayor, the governor and the senator for weeks to months?

Easy the council 100%. If I had to slip a hundo to every government employee to get anything done I’d be out thousands at this point. If it ever came to it the other option would cost me a phone call and an email. I’m sure I’d have to wait a couple of weeks, but likely not months. I’m sorry our system does tend to work for the most part without the need for me to shell out thousands of dollars to the DMV employees

99.99% of the bureaucrats you will meet with are on the local level. Most federal programs are administered by states. Suddenly your representation becomes a lot better. Easier to get a city councilman to help you out than a senator I’ll give you that.

But you really think it’s a better system to have to deal with a bureaucrat and to have to bribe them on top of it?

Honestly you’re sounding a lot like Trump when he began dismantling the federal government.

Yeah that’s how governments function dude

Okay cool you can say that as much as you want, but there are documented cases demonstrating that this effects everyone in the US or attempting to enter.

I even acknowledged already that POC are disproportionately affected in my last comment. Why are you trying to manufacture an argument?

2 edgy 4 me

You think it’s evenly applied, doesn’t mean it is. You take the power from the people and give it to a random official. Better hope they aren’t racist, sexist, homophobic, etc.

There’s no checks, and knowing people it will not be an evenly applied corruption.

Plus that $10 fee goes to the city. If your city functions well that benefits everyone rather than a single government official. I’d rather have maintained roads and some libraries than a few wealthy government officials.

Also if the government doesn’t get their cut or has a shortfall in revenue they just raise taxes/fees. Then you have to pay off the official even more money because it’s a higher fee.

Incredibly bad take incoming:

I mean I can’t argue with you there

The US is not a safe place for anyone especially POC.

That’s the accurate statement. Yes ICE/Border Patrol are disproportionately targeting POC, but they’re not stopping there.

Like I didn’t say this earlier because in context it was irrelevant and I hate having to write lengthy comments that discuss every part of a large complex issue, but here we are.

I don’t do this for many things but i do use it sometimes

I’ve used care credit because a single emergency vet bill can be pricey and while I could empty my savings that’s not the best idea. So I just pay it off within the promotional period. Worse case scenario I am in a position to secure a traditional personal loan to completely pay off that balance at a more favorable interest rate.

I used a 0% intro rate travel card for a European vacation once and it was great paying that off over a year.

That being said I wouldn’t finance groceries or Christmas shopping. That’s going a bit far

Don’t know if you’ve heard but the US has been arresting white German citizens lately

I have a good many of these in a personal “class war” Playlist but this increases my collection

Once again being too literal it’s the whole system conveniences are just a part of that

Convinces aren’t made to save us time and effort. Back to the example of the household all the modern conveniences did was decrease the about of labor needed to maintain a home.

Did that surplus of labor help us? No now conveniences became necessary because households required a dual income.

If all the modern conveniences saved a home maker 30 hours per week those did not become free. That labor went to making quarterly profits. Now you need 2 adults working so you have to buy these things to have any time to do other things

I’d argue they vast majority of characters I’ve encountered in fiction I have absolutely no idea what their sexuality was, because it was not relevant.

Even in real life I don’t know everyone’s sexuality. I have coworkers I’ve worked with for years and I have no idea.

I think the issue is we just assume characters are straight until it’s explicitly said otherwise