I’ll go first…
My favorite Fediverse platforms as of 2024
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Mastodon - my main social feed platform that first introduced me to the Fediverse in general.
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Lemmy - my second main social feed platform that originally substituted Reddit from years ago.
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Matrix protocol - communication platform I use to connect with users on the Lemmy instance I’m on
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Peertube - would love to get an account going and use it more often but still don’t know how but there’s FediVideo.
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Bookwyrm - Goodreads alternative that I signed up for that could use more work for a genuine reading tracker.
BONUS: my least favorite Fediverse platform lately
WordPress - because I used to run art blogs on there before I heard word about drama about the CEO of the corporation so I basically had to put out my last existing art blog…RIP.
What’s so good about PieFed?
Much more advanced moderation tools: https://join.piefed.social/2024/06/22/piefed-features-for-growing-healthy-communities/
Actual instance blocking compared to the incomplete “mute communities” instance blocking on Lemmy
Development seems fasters than Lemmy, they are almost at feature parity while being much younger
On the other hand, it has some weirdly opinionated features:
If it helps:
this is controlled by a user setting. I left the one that automatically “collapses” comments below a threshold at the default, but I disabled the one that “hides” comments by setting the threshold to -10000. So, far from taking away user power, it strictly enhances choices by providing new options, only at the user’s behest.
it does have such a “reputation” feature, as too does life. Someone who constantly trolls others gets rather “known” for such. But crucially, it’s a label - it doesn’t hide anything, only enhances what is already there. And yeah it’s a bit of an experiment, perhaps it won’t work. Or perhaps it will be improved further? Based on the above and the responsiveness of the devs, I would expect complete control if features were ever added to actually do anything wrt this score.
Btw apps already have something similar, as too does PieFed, when adding a label for new accounts - bc people have asked for it, and it can be helpful to know when talking with someone that they are a new account (perhaps they are an alt, but it’s something, and again it’s just a label).
Yeah, I constantly get downvoted - and some of my posts are among the most heavily downvoted content existing in certain communities (but I also note that such things as Innuendo Studios The Alt Right Playbook got heavily downvoted by the same community as well so… I feel vindicated:-). So I mean it when I say that believe me I KNOW what you mean when expressing those concerns. Perhaps the experiment won’t work out, or perhaps it merely needs tuning - e.g. so that any one post or comment doesn’t weigh so heavily but rather only their aggregate (median rather than mean perhaps? or maybe only the binary choice of positive or negative total score, and even then perhaps not centered at zero but something more highly negative like -10?).
Also PieFed.social has defederated from hexbear.net and lemmygrad.ml, so those sources of downvoting are entirely removed. It also preferentially weights scores more highly feedback from those with high reputation already - which state I achieved in roughly a week and with only two posts, one a cross-post of the other even. So it’s not like seniors are locking out the noobs.
Anyway yes there’s enormous potential for misuse there, but it’s also something that people have been clamoring for - so it’s something that they are being responsive enough to try it out?
I’m not sure about the categories - but again the devs are very responsive so surely easy to change things? Also I’ve definitely joined communities that aren’t in those, and while there are large federation issues with any non-Lemmy.World instance right now (I see the same from many instances including my 2 alt accounts elsewhere - so it has little to nothing to do with PieFed; especially after the enormous surge in content surrounding the USA election), I believe that they show up in the main feed.
I have never heard that before but I would support it - more “experimental” communities should be allowed, to try things out, a “safe space” if you will:-).
All of these are valid concerns - and seem like they are being worked on.
Honestly assigning a label to users that everyone can see based on other users’ opinions seems like a bad idea anyway you put it. Independent of it’s intention, it can stifle constructive arguments, encourage mass alt accounts, cause classism and mobbing. There is a Black Mirror episode with this exact premise where it impacts your real life reputation, people’s perceptions of you & what you’re allowed to do.
I will concede that it could be problematic, but as for “bad”, I think that depends heavily on the implementation?
A positive example: “new” accounts could be labeled, to help identify someone who e.g. could use some pointers as for how to do formatting, like how to embed rather than simply link to an image. I have zero issues with this kind of factually-based, simple labels, and from looking at the user requests in various places (Ask Lemmy, Shower Thoughts, etc.), people very much want this.
Now, complex labels on the other hand, or those that are not straightforward but rather deceivingly simplistic such as “this person is GOOD, this other person is BAD” are a whole other matter altogether. I’m with you there.
So what about the in-between: is it worth it to use spam filters at all, even though it might throw out something good along the way? The answer to that seems to me to be how well it is tuned, and also ofc up to the user to decide if worth it to them or not. On that note, the account admin https://piefed.social/u/rimu has an “attitude” score that I’ve seen hovering around the 75-82% range, so I doubt we would see a filter such as “must never downvote or receive downvotes”, or 90%, or even 50%. On the other hand, if let’s say ~>90% of someone’s every single post and comment were downvoted heavily, on an account older than let’s say a month, that seems like a different story? That speaks to a repeated pattern of someone not taking a hint as to how their content affects others around them. A horrible implementation could be too simple minded and count e.g. every post or comment as “bad” even if it received 1000+ upvotes but got one downvote, but a smart implementation could do MUCH better than such?
Ofc people could misuse those in any case - but how is that different from anything else? e.g. I could see a “he/him”, and decide that I don’t want to talk with “a man” or “a person who uses pronouns”. And frankly, someone uses such quick judgement calls is perhaps best to avoid talking with their hated audience anyway, if they are e.g. misogynistic or whatever.
Gaming the system is a better counterargument - but that too is like spam filtering: not a reason to not do it at all (and thereby allow all spam through?), but rather realizing that no system is perfect. Which is why I like how these are LABELS, not filters. (There are filters too, but those are per-comment/post, not per-user.)
So, as long as it is optional, and not heavy-handed, I am excited to see how this may develop. Definitely there are concerns, as there would be for any software project or social media endeavor. Remember that there are significant concerns with Lemmy as well:-) - e.g. a good fraction of people on Reddit refuse to check us out due to the known political leanings of the devs. However, it’s a strong counterargument that the model is federated, so someone doesn’t have to join lemmy.ml, yet can still make use of the software from them. Btw the same applies to PieFed as well - it is open source and anyone can spin up their own instance.
So: we’ll see how it develops. I think that an extremely limited amount of labelling could be helpful, if applied with care and consideration.
It doesn’t really help for me, but the beauty of the fediverse is that it doesn’t have to. You can like PieFed, I can prefer Lemmy and we can both still talk :)
Absolutely 💯!
And truth be told, we don’t know what the future holds as well. As moderation tools improve on Lemmy.World, as communities evolve, and new concepts rise to the foreground e.g. PieFed, and also Sublinks, both on top of Mbin too.
A year ago I thought one way about e.g. communities located on Lemmy.ml, then time passed and I changed my mind. Then technology changed and I switched instances to follow.
What I am saying is: it is so fantastic to have choices! ☺️ THAT is the real win in this situation, IMHO, whether I end up liking PieFed’s approach or not. 🏆
Yea it’s cool. Although, regarding sublinks, it really looks like the project has stalled.
Yeah, no updates announced for several months, that’s not a great sign. I haven’t checked their codebase pages to find out why. Wasn’t January 2025 supposed to be a huge deadline for them?
💯
I looked thru this blog hopeful that there would be protection against mod abuse. Instead you can get banned for downvoting? I don’t want to be looking over my back because some dipshit mod had a bad take. This is generating way too much analytical data on users. Communities don’t need empowered super mods treating users like numbers on a spreadsheet. Lemmy for sure has problems (ml) but this isn’t the answer.
It doesn’t need to be the answer. It just needs to be an answer for certain use cases. Both platforms can easily coexist. That’s the beauty of federation.
Lemmy admins can already see who downvotes what, I’m sure they already ban accounts who systematically downvote their communities content
It’s a tool. If some admins power trip, well report them on [email protected]
Mods can also see votes in communities they moderate, lemmy-ui just doesn’t show the option (and no other client, to my knowledge, has the feature).
But wont you lose like 99% of the user base? Or is it cross compatible?
PieFed communicates with Lemmy. Same content, different platform. That’s one awesome thing about federation.
There is also mbin (fork of kbin), and Sublinks, which is API compatible with Lemmy so should be able to use Lemmy apps with it (from memory, this is what Beehaw are hoping to move to).
Hello from PieFed - yes it works.:-)