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- cross-posted to:
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Gretchen Whitmer responds to calls by some Democrats to vote āuncommittedā in Michiganās primary on Tuesday
Gretchen Whitmer, the Michigan governor, pushed back on calls to not vote for Joe Biden over his handling of the Israel-Gaza conflict, saying on Sunday that could help Trump get re-elected.
āItās important not to lose sight of the fact that any vote thatās not cast for Joe Biden supports a second Trump term,ā she said on Sunday during an interview on CNNās State of the Union. āA second Trump term would be devastating. Not just on fundamental rights, not just on our democracy here at home, but also when it comes to foreign policy. This was a man who promoted a Muslim ban.ā
Whitmer, who is a co-chair of Bidenās 2024 campaign, also said she wasnāt sure what to expect when it came to the protest vote.
Rashida Tlaib, a Democrat who is the only Palestinian-American serving in Congress, urged Democrats last week to vote āuncommittedā in Michiganās 27 February primary.
And wouldnāt you know it, thereās a lot more to an administration than their stance on Israel. Stop trying to boil everything down to truisms and catchphrases. If you really donāt think that the left has had a sizeable impact on Bidenās admin, we donāt really have a lot to talk about here.
The left has had a sizeable impact on Bidenās domestic policies. Including the Inflation Reduction Act, American Rescue Plan, and the Bipartisan infrastructure Law.
The Biden administration has been funding and arming the Israeli genocide of Gaza
Both are true. And genocide is the worst thing a country can do. I learned that in 6th grade when we learned about the importance of ensuring āNever Againā re: the Holocaust
I just donāt understand the pragmatism here. You sit the election out, Trump wins, Gaza is leveled for a mega church the next week and American democracy is in danger. You sit the election out, Biden wins, he now gives 0 fucks about your leverage in his second term because he doesnāt need it. You vote, Trump wins, Gaza still gets leveled for the mega church. You vote, Biden wins, progressives now have leverage to force Biden into a harsher stance on Israel in his second term, exactly like youāve been doing already in his first.
Subtlety and nuance have never been a strength of populist movements, but the left should really examine their impact on Bidenās Israel stance. No, he hasnāt completely blown up our relationship with Israel, but this is the harshest stance America has taken against Israel possibly since its inception. Iām one of the huge percentage who want further action done to bring Israel to heel, but my only realistic avenue to achieve that is by continuing to exact the leverage I have while keeping that leverage intact.
Frankly, if you want anything more, the left needs to grow and get more powerful. Objectively right now, they are weaker than the major political parties, which is what has forced them into this relationship. If you want a president who is going to give you your deepest wishes with no concessions, youāre going to need to get a hell of a lot stronger. Frankly, because of that lack of pragmatism and political capital, I donāt see it happening in my lifetime.
I donāt see how voting for a hypothetically successful Biden candidacy would create any leverage on Biden. He is term limited and cannot run for reelection if he wins in November. And even if Kamala/Newsom/Whitmer/etc want to win in 2028, I donāt see how anti-Zionists uniformly voting for Biden in 2024 will have any bearing on their development of policy re:Israel. If anything, voting for him in November despite Israelās genocide seems to demonstrate that Israel can do whatever it wants, including exterminating the Palestinians, and Dems still wonāt meaningfully lose any votes. Itās the same concept as Trump saying he could shoot someone in the middle of the street and not lose any votes - here, it seems that Dems/Biden can do anything including funding and arming a genocide, and, under your hypothetical, they wonāt lose any votes. How does that enable anti-Zionists to get leverage? If anything, it encourages establishment politicians to disregard anti-Zionists and take them for granted.
Also,
Iām not bothered by this, but this sort of rhetoric is highly unpersuasive and will not cause you to persuade anyone to your point of view, which I assume is your goal. It makes it less likely that people will agree with you when you insult them. Especially when you imply there is something innate about them that prevents them from being as rational as you. Itās othering, and it creates resentment, not changed views
You admit above that progressives have used leverage to have a large influence on the Biden admin. Itās the same principle. Biden makes promises to get elected, which you then hold him to during his term. You did it with student aid (even if the Supreme Court squashed the largest one), you did it with the FTC, you did it with the climate and infrastructure bills. You had to compromise, because of course other people have power and leverage to use, but you got solid returns. You could flip your argument on term limits on its head and say he would be even more unconstrained to pursue the agenda his voters want.
Can you answer me on what the alternative does? Trump is not going to be an anti Zionist. Heās going to hurt more Palestinians, harder. Heās going to devastate international relations and create similar crises across the globe, which will hurt even more people. At what point do you take responsibility for those genocides you didnāt help to prevent? At what point do peopleās lives override strict principles?
Iām sorry, youāre right that I shouldnāt be slinging that sort of thing. On that same token, myself and a lot of others have been called āgenocidalā and various other things for the belief that itās not as simple as Biden just yeeting every ounce of support out of Israel because of the broader context of the middle east.
To be clear, I love the left. They are Americaās heart and lead with empathy, which is so sorely needed in politics. I just think that the left, as a combined group, lacks pragmatism in favor of principle. That tendency has led to the left not having any true power for a century, and thatās only if you consider FDR a leftist, which a hell of a lot of leftists would not. I need wins. I need rights. The democrats deliver that for me. Not always, but I have multiple rights as a gay woman that I would not have without them. So like, nothing would make me happier than the left infecting and overtaking the democratic party. Please do it! But until then, I think itās foolish to use the leftās leverage this way. Itās cruel to those you leave behind when you sit at home. Itās cruel to those who will be affected by the genocides that will be started and strengthened by a Trump admin. Itās cruel for the sake of political gamesmanship, which is exactly what the democratic party is accused of constantly.
Agreed
Biden is a zionist. If left unconstrained he would be even more supportive of Israel than he currently is. He doesnāt like the brutality of the current genocide because itās bad optics. But he agrees with the ultimate result of Israel waging total war and permanently annexing Gaza. Once he is reelected he will have no accountability at all on this issue - and he only is accountable to a very modest extent currently because he needs to win Michigan in November. Once November is over that wonāt be the case.
Agreed.
So it seems that the options that our system has presented us with are voting either for an active genocide, or voting for the creation of additional genocides in addition to escalation of the current one. If that is the choice the system offers us then arenāt we compelled to restructure the United States and replace our system itself? At the very least, violence and death required to sustain our country must be fully acknowledged and its truth must be exposed. Biden and the United States are causing the occurrence of a genocide. If that is our least harmful option then Xi and Putin (who are worse than us) are correct to use this as an opportunity to permanently destroy American/Western moral clarity.
Donāt sell your rage short. It is one of the constraints on a presidentās behavior.
And in favor of what? Putin or Xiās moral clarity? Iām unhappy with the situation in Gaza, but as flawed as the West might be, Iām of the opinion that it creates much fewer human rights atrocities. I want it improved and refined, not dismantled. In the absence of stability, do you really think leftism is what is going to rise out of the ashes? Like, really consider what youāre advocating for here. How do you fight a genocide in Gaza by dismantling our own democracy at home and kicking off hundreds more in the struggle to fill the void of American hegemony? Again, I find myself questioning the pragmatism of these options.
I genuinely see a path to a better tomorrow through maintaining our democracy long enough for the boomers to age out a bit more and then filling that vacuum with a more leftist party to contend with the more centrist democrats. Even better would be a growing and pragmatic left that uses bargaining, cooperation, and political capital to achieve their ends. Getting back to a sane form of ābipartisanshipā once we have rubbed the modern conservative populist movement into the ground. Rivals that can at least agree on the fundamentals of humanity.
At the end of the day, I want to flip the general leftist position. Iām a social democrat. Iām super open to a ton of leftist positions. Why would I want to vote for the left right now? Theyāre angry, disorganized, almost powerless, refuse to compromise, and the rising populism movementās inability to perceive and work with the nuances of government are extremely concerning. I hear more about whatās wrong from them than I ever do an actual solution.
I need solutions and I need us to remain on the rails so those improvements can be made. Asking for the country to collapse is just cruel to so many people. Possibly literal magnitudes above a genocide in Gaza.