How do you intend to come back from those 100 years if you just insult and attack your closest left wing allies?
Edit: Okay Lemmy’s working again, it cut me off earlier.
I think strikes are ineffective and we need nationalization of some industries instead. I’m no bootlicker. I’m just someone who likes to see and get results. By constantly eschewing your natural allies and rejecting them with purity tests, all you’ve done is extend 10 years since Eugene Debs was imprisoned to 100 years since. And all the while, left wing ideas have been implemented by others.
The others may not be left enough to your taste, nor the policies adequately left enough, but if we’re measuring actual progress, they’ve done more for left wing causes. There may be good reasons why, but it doesn’t change that fact.
Working solo has not been remotely successful for leftists at all. Unless they want to make it 150 years where they’ve done nothing, they need to work with allies.
Liberals are not and have never been allied with leftists. In what world are you living? They’re fundamentally opposed to one another. You should read some books. Books written by leftists, not liberals.
I was moreso thinking progressives and leftists. At the end of the day, a US liberal is still much closer politically to a leftist than they are to a US conservative. That’s doubly true for the leftist.
The leftist wing isn’t strong politically in the US. They’ve gone down their path on their own, and it hasn’t been successful. I’m a progressive, and I’d like to see an alliance that strengthens the left and progressives and mainstream Democrats. We’re natural cousins compared to what Republicans have become. We’ll do a lot better sticking together, and if we do, there’s the possibility we diminish Republicans enough that we could split ourselves, and have the two major parties be Democrats/Progressives and Progressives/Leftists. This is the path that gets the most left wing policies implemented.
Again, I urge you to read leftist literature. Leftists will NEVER achieve anything under a neoliberal capitalist society through voting. It is not possible. That’s why leftists don’t vote. And until “progressives” or whomever understand fundamentally what leftists want and how it can be achieved, there’s not really any point having a dialogue with them. You want us to shut up and get in line to vote dem. And then what happens? The rich get richer, the poor get poorer and the bombs keep dropping. Harm is not reduced, it just shifts somewhere else.
If your supposition that “Leftists will NEVER achieve anything under a neoliberal capital society” (neoliberal capitalist is redundant btw) were true then we wouldn’t have Social Security or the EPA, both of which were passed during Republican administrations but at a time when the progressive wing had influence.
The other commenter is correct that leftists have virtually no power in the U.S. The Democratic party has never been a left-wing, labor-dominated party; they’ve mediated between business and labor. Things have changed for the worse in American politics. International competition (and greed) has made business owners ruthless, the civil rights movement of the 60s led to a half-century white backlash against the federal government, and then Christian fundamentalists captured the Republican Party. The progressive wing of the Democratic party has been forced into a mostly defensive position.
You’re free to not vote of course, but I do think sitting idly by while your country slips into Christofascism because the progressives aren’t left enough for you is foolish. There are only two boxes left if you’re ruling out the ballot box, and I’d wager most aren’t ready to use one of those. Theory is great but realpolitik is how the world is shaped comrade, allies help.
How do you intend to come back from those 100 years if you just insult and attack your closest left wing allies?
Edit: Okay Lemmy’s working again, it cut me off earlier.
I think strikes are ineffective and we need nationalization of some industries instead. I’m no bootlicker. I’m just someone who likes to see and get results. By constantly eschewing your natural allies and rejecting them with purity tests, all you’ve done is extend 10 years since Eugene Debs was imprisoned to 100 years since. And all the while, left wing ideas have been implemented by others.
The others may not be left enough to your taste, nor the policies adequately left enough, but if we’re measuring actual progress, they’ve done more for left wing causes. There may be good reasons why, but it doesn’t change that fact.
Working solo has not been remotely successful for leftists at all. Unless they want to make it 150 years where they’ve done nothing, they need to work with allies.
Liberals are not and have never been allied with leftists. In what world are you living? They’re fundamentally opposed to one another. You should read some books. Books written by leftists, not liberals.
I was moreso thinking progressives and leftists. At the end of the day, a US liberal is still much closer politically to a leftist than they are to a US conservative. That’s doubly true for the leftist.
The leftist wing isn’t strong politically in the US. They’ve gone down their path on their own, and it hasn’t been successful. I’m a progressive, and I’d like to see an alliance that strengthens the left and progressives and mainstream Democrats. We’re natural cousins compared to what Republicans have become. We’ll do a lot better sticking together, and if we do, there’s the possibility we diminish Republicans enough that we could split ourselves, and have the two major parties be Democrats/Progressives and Progressives/Leftists. This is the path that gets the most left wing policies implemented.
Again, I urge you to read leftist literature. Leftists will NEVER achieve anything under a neoliberal capitalist society through voting. It is not possible. That’s why leftists don’t vote. And until “progressives” or whomever understand fundamentally what leftists want and how it can be achieved, there’s not really any point having a dialogue with them. You want us to shut up and get in line to vote dem. And then what happens? The rich get richer, the poor get poorer and the bombs keep dropping. Harm is not reduced, it just shifts somewhere else.
What exactly do you suggest then, if not voting?
If your supposition that “Leftists will NEVER achieve anything under a neoliberal capital society” (neoliberal capitalist is redundant btw) were true then we wouldn’t have Social Security or the EPA, both of which were passed during Republican administrations but at a time when the progressive wing had influence.
The other commenter is correct that leftists have virtually no power in the U.S. The Democratic party has never been a left-wing, labor-dominated party; they’ve mediated between business and labor. Things have changed for the worse in American politics. International competition (and greed) has made business owners ruthless, the civil rights movement of the 60s led to a half-century white backlash against the federal government, and then Christian fundamentalists captured the Republican Party. The progressive wing of the Democratic party has been forced into a mostly defensive position.
You’re free to not vote of course, but I do think sitting idly by while your country slips into Christofascism because the progressives aren’t left enough for you is foolish. There are only two boxes left if you’re ruling out the ballot box, and I’d wager most aren’t ready to use one of those. Theory is great but realpolitik is how the world is shaped comrade, allies help.