A viral clip from 2021 shows Donald Trump’s running mate hyping an antidemocratic plan once pushed in Hungary that would give people with children more voting power.
That’s nonsense. And I say that as a parent. Just because someone doesn’t have kids of their own doesn’t mean they don’t have children in their lives they care about and want to thrive, or just want the species to improve itself.
And plenty of parents couldn’t give less of a shit about their kids.
I don’t have kids or children in my life and I’m heavily invested in the concept of an easier future for the younger generations, I’ve never understood this.
I’ve often had the unpleasant niggling thought that maybe many people don’t actually understand altruistic behavior. The idea that people would strive to make the world a better place even if there’s no earthly or eternal reward really seems foreign to some people.
Yeah, but are they paying any of their own money to take care of those kids for two decades? As a parent, I’m involved in my kids’ lives on a daily basis and I’ve been given an additional set of legal responsibilities & obligations. Society expects more from me in order to raise my kids (though I did willingly take that on by becoming a parent). You raise a good point though that further muddies the idea, what about legal guardians or adults who help out kids, who decides who gets that extra voting power? And then with delinquent parents, why should they be entitled to more voting power? It also further disenfranchises the LGBTQ+ community as well, so yeah, it’s just fraught with way too many issues.
Being unprepared to deal with the reality of poor choices
Is a reflection of how a better society would help people avoid such mistakes. Saying that someone messed up due to ignorance and now has to pay the price is victim blaming. Look at the root causes.
Is a reflection of how a better society would help people avoid such mistakes. Saying that someone messed up due to ignorance and now has to pay the price is victim blaming. Look at the root causes.
remind me again, which party wants to expand social safety nets and tackle poverty? the “Childless left” or the religious right?
As you said, you took on the responsibility and obligations of parenthood when you chose to have children. Part of that is considering their interests when exercising your vote. While I don’t have children, I don’t agree that you have more skin in the game as you put it, than I do. I, as a human being and citizen of this country, want to see it succeed and flourish not only now, but long after I am gone, for generations to come. My family, friends and loved ones are all considerations when voting, as well as what I think will be best for society as a whole. It’s why when local votes come up for school funding, I always vote in favor of increases, despite having no children of my own benefitting from it.
Every adult makes life choices, and has various considerations for how they think the world should be, and what will improve it. The personal decisions you make and how you live your life should not afford you more or less votes than anyone else.
What difference does the money make? Does you paying to feed your kids mean you love them more than their grandparents and want them to be successful more than their grandparents?
Yeah, but are they paying any of their own money to take care of those kids for two decades?
Yes. Taxes. People without kids still pay taxes for things like education, meal programs, etc. People with kids get a tax break to compensate for the cost of raising kids. You’re asking for something already built into how we support parents and children in America.
You also appear to be under the misconception that parents will automatically vote in the best interests of their children. Some may, but not all. It also pressures people to produce children needlessly in order to have more personal electoral power, which will result in a baby boom the likes of which hasn’t been seen since the end of WW2 - and back then, the US had a dominant economic position where there were more resources available to support these children.
I feel that you might be trying to argue your position in good faith. However, giving parents more rights to vote because they have children is a terrible idea. It will be exploited mercilessly by bad faith actors. Hell, the USA should be rewarding parents who choose to have fewer(2 or less) children, or those who choose not to have kids. This planet is already too overcrowded.
Yeah, but are they paying any of their own money to take care of those kids for two decades?
Yes. It’s called taxes. I pay property tax specifically to fund public education. The entire idea is called the “Forced Rider Problem”. That is, I have to pay for services that I (or my hypothetical children) will never use. Not that I’m opposed- I benefit from a well educated society.
“yeah but-” I’m also contributing taxes to fund social wellfare programs, in addition to near-weekly donations of fresh and healthy fruits and veggies. Doesn’t make me a hero or even a decent person. And you taking care of kids doesn’t make you a fucking hero either.
As a parent, I’m involved in my kids’ lives on a daily basis and I’ve been given an additional set of legal responsibilities & obligations.
Congratulations? You want a medal? getting laid and dealing with the responsibilities because the law says you have to does not make you anything other than a person who got laid.
Society expects more from me in order to raise my kids (though I did willingly take that on by becoming a parent).
you actually think you get a medal, don’t you? You actually think you’re special and awesome and a decent guy because you took responsibility for your actions (that of bringing a child into this world).
The only way this idea makes any sense is to allow the children to vote for themselves not to give a parent extra votes. You might argue that children are uninformed and won’t vote ‘correctly’, but that same argument can be applied to the parents as being informed isn’t a requirement to vote.
That’s nonsense. And I say that as a parent. Just because someone doesn’t have kids of their own doesn’t mean they don’t have children in their lives they care about and want to thrive, or just want the species to improve itself.
And plenty of parents couldn’t give less of a shit about their kids.
I don’t have kids or children in my life and I’m heavily invested in the concept of an easier future for the younger generations, I’ve never understood this.
I’ve often had the unpleasant niggling thought that maybe many people don’t actually understand altruistic behavior. The idea that people would strive to make the world a better place even if there’s no earthly or eternal reward really seems foreign to some people.
Yeah, but are they paying any of their own money to take care of those kids for two decades? As a parent, I’m involved in my kids’ lives on a daily basis and I’ve been given an additional set of legal responsibilities & obligations. Society expects more from me in order to raise my kids (though I did willingly take that on by becoming a parent). You raise a good point though that further muddies the idea, what about legal guardians or adults who help out kids, who decides who gets that extra voting power? And then with delinquent parents, why should they be entitled to more voting power? It also further disenfranchises the LGBTQ+ community as well, so yeah, it’s just fraught with way too many issues.
You said it yourself and it’s very fucking simple:
You shoveled shit on yourself (had kids), so fucking deal with it.
That’s the end. There’s no caveats.
Your knowledge and beliefs sound lofty at best.
:: cough :: Might I point out, now more than ever, there are those who didn’t choose to become a parent?
Fuck yeah they should get something for it. Whether it’s votes, ice cream, or some sort of UBI… they deserve something.
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Is a reflection of how a better society would help people avoid such mistakes. Saying that someone messed up due to ignorance and now has to pay the price is victim blaming. Look at the root causes.
remind me again, which party wants to expand social safety nets and tackle poverty? the “Childless left” or the religious right?
So where does one’s responsibility for our actions end if it doesn’t include sexual activity? Lol
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Only in places controlled by the party advocating for parents getting more voting power than non-parents.
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As you said, you took on the responsibility and obligations of parenthood when you chose to have children. Part of that is considering their interests when exercising your vote. While I don’t have children, I don’t agree that you have more skin in the game as you put it, than I do. I, as a human being and citizen of this country, want to see it succeed and flourish not only now, but long after I am gone, for generations to come. My family, friends and loved ones are all considerations when voting, as well as what I think will be best for society as a whole. It’s why when local votes come up for school funding, I always vote in favor of increases, despite having no children of my own benefitting from it.
Every adult makes life choices, and has various considerations for how they think the world should be, and what will improve it. The personal decisions you make and how you live your life should not afford you more or less votes than anyone else.
What difference does the money make? Does you paying to feed your kids mean you love them more than their grandparents and want them to be successful more than their grandparents?
Yes. Taxes. People without kids still pay taxes for things like education, meal programs, etc. People with kids get a tax break to compensate for the cost of raising kids. You’re asking for something already built into how we support parents and children in America.
You also appear to be under the misconception that parents will automatically vote in the best interests of their children. Some may, but not all. It also pressures people to produce children needlessly in order to have more personal electoral power, which will result in a baby boom the likes of which hasn’t been seen since the end of WW2 - and back then, the US had a dominant economic position where there were more resources available to support these children.
I feel that you might be trying to argue your position in good faith. However, giving parents more rights to vote because they have children is a terrible idea. It will be exploited mercilessly by bad faith actors. Hell, the USA should be rewarding parents who choose to have fewer(2 or less) children, or those who choose not to have kids. This planet is already too overcrowded.
Yes. It’s called taxes. I pay property tax specifically to fund public education. The entire idea is called the “Forced Rider Problem”. That is, I have to pay for services that I (or my hypothetical children) will never use. Not that I’m opposed- I benefit from a well educated society.
“yeah but-” I’m also contributing taxes to fund social wellfare programs, in addition to near-weekly donations of fresh and healthy fruits and veggies. Doesn’t make me a hero or even a decent person. And you taking care of kids doesn’t make you a fucking hero either.
Congratulations? You want a medal? getting laid and dealing with the responsibilities because the law says you have to does not make you anything other than a person who got laid.
you actually think you get a medal, don’t you? You actually think you’re special and awesome and a decent guy because you took responsibility for your actions (that of bringing a child into this world).
The only way this idea makes any sense is to allow the children to vote for themselves not to give a parent extra votes. You might argue that children are uninformed and won’t vote ‘correctly’, but that same argument can be applied to the parents as being informed isn’t a requirement to vote.
Good point. I’m sure there are plenty of kids I would rather were able to vote than their parents.