US cited security concerns before effectively banning Chinese EV sales

China’s secret services could use sensors and cameras in the cars to monitor secure areas, wiretap passenger conversations and access phones that are plugged into the vehicle, CSRI senior policy director Sam Goodman said.

  • nahostdeutschland@feddit.orgEnglish
    874·
    5 days ago

    All EV vehicles are spying. Teslas are rolling cameras with central cloud storage and Volkswagen was busted recently for leaking all locations of their cars. We shouldn’t label that as “Chinese spy-EVs”, but should enforce the GDPR for all cars

      • zaxvenz@lemm.eeOPEnglish
        21·
        5 days ago

        Software is like encryption. you can’t trust it if it’s not auditable.

        • Atmoro@lemmy.worldEnglish
          1·
          2 days ago

          Well yeah but Automotive Grade Linux is open source fully (unless there is soemthing I didnt know as far I know) and is auditable

    • PatrickYaa@lemmy.oneEnglish
      18·
      5 days ago

      At this point, all Vehicles are spying. It’s not exclusive for EVs. Anything built in the last ~15-20 years have exactly the same sensors, regardless of the engine technology.

      • elmicha@feddit.orgEnglish
        2·
        4 days ago

        While I agree that it’s not exclusive to EVs, I’m pretty sure it was not as bad 15 years ago. For example my Toyota Yaris from 2010 certainly cannot transmit to the outside world (even Bluetooth was an extra back then).

    • troed@fedia.io
      2011·
      5 days ago

      This is a horrible take. VW are diligent in following GDPR and as an owner (yes, I am) you are constantly asked for exactly which permissions you want to give what service.

      They had a misconfigured S3 instance. While bad, that’s not intentional - but you’re comparing it to “At Tesla we wank to your in-car video feed” and “BYD spies for the Chinese government” which is just a whole different thing.

      • splendoruranium@infosec.pubEnglish
        131·
        5 days ago

        This is a horrible take. VW are diligent in following GDPR and as an owner (yes, I am) you are constantly asked for exactly which permissions you want to give what service.

        “I’d like the variant without a SIM card please.”

        • Geodad@lemm.eeEnglish
          3·
          4 days ago

          I’m currently fighting with Toyota over that very issue. I told them I want a new RAV4 Prime without the sim installed.

        • federal reverse@feddit.orgMEnglish
          31·
          4 days ago

          That’s against EU regulation, as new cars must include an SOS assistance button. (Granted, many car manufacturers hide multiple SIM cards in their vehicles now. Or they use the existing SIM card for navigation, music, analytics, GBs of software updates … and emergency assistance.)

          • splendoruranium@infosec.pubEnglish
            4·
            4 days ago

            That’s against EU regulation, as new cars must include an SOS assistance button. (Granted, many car manufacturers hide multiple SIM cards in their vehicles now. Or they use the existing SIM card for navigation, music, analytics, GBs of software updates … and emergency assistance.)

            Fair, that’s technically a SIM, but as you yourself noted, it’s not the one used by the manufacturer.
            Maybe I should phrase it another way:
            “Dear manufacturer, I’d like my business relationship with you to end after the purchase of this car. I will contact you if I need anything else, be it navigation, music, analytics, or updates. You will not contact me.”

          • splendoruranium@infosec.pubEnglish
            2·
            4 days ago

            “I’d like the variant without a SIM card please.”
            Don’t buy features you don’t want.

            Well yes, that’s what I was saying. Are you saying a VW vendor will not only sell me a car without any non-mandated communication modules but also give me a better price for it because it amounts to the car having fewer features? That’s actually good news.

          • lesatur@lemmy.wtfEnglish
            1·
            4 days ago

            You can’t buy a car that had its model registration in the EU after 2019 in the EU that hasn’t a SIM Card installed as it is part of an EU legislation.

            • troed@fedia.io
              1·
              4 days ago

              Yeah, that was the point. When you require the world to serve your special needs expect to have to go to quite some lengths to get them.

      • Saleh@feddit.orgEnglish
        81·
        5 days ago

        Misconfigured to the point that all the data was collected, centrally stored and then accessible from the outside. These are at least two misconfiguration and one mayor architecture issue (central storage).

          • Saleh@feddit.orgEnglish
            8·
            5 days ago

            Since Spring Boot version 1.5 is over 7 years old, that’s unlikely to be the cause. Instead, someone must have explicitly enabled the heap dump endpoint in production without authentication.

            That is the major configuration problem that got the data accesible

            Let’s recap. We now have user profiles showing which cars people drive and tracking data that sometimes spans years. While this data collection is covered in the terms and conditions for product improvement analysis, Volkswagen says they track this data to understand battery lifecycles better. Still, the need for location data remains unclear. The terms and conditions state that GPS data is truncated, which would significantly reduce tracking capabilities if accuracy drops to around 10 kilometers. Audi and Škoda implemented this correctly—cars from their fleet had location data truncated to approximately 10-kilometer accuracy. However, the problem arose with VW and Seat vehicles, where location data remained precise down to 10 centimeters.

            That is the first configuration problem, to collect this data in the first place and then to collect it down to this level of precision.

            This remains with the major architectural problem.

            They could access complete user profiles and location data by combining this data. The breach revealed:

            Enrollment data for both electric and non-electric vehicles, including details like VIN, model, year, and user ID

            User data, including name, email, phone, and in some cases, physical addresses and preferred dealerships

            EV data: Mileage, battery temperature, battery status, charging status, and even warning light data

            Tracking data only for electric cars: GPS coordinates of the vehicles’ locations recorded every time the engine was turned off

            All this data is stored in one place. Leaving aside the discussion of whether this data should be collected in the first place, there would be a strong reason to separate the data supposedly collected for technical analysis from the data that identifies who owns the car. Of course in the case of location data down to 10cm accuracy that is a bit moot as you can get the home address easily from the location data.

            Please let me know if there was something i missed regarding my assessment of two configuration problems and one architectural problem.

            • troed@fedia.io
              23·
              4 days ago

              Yeah, you missed how this is absolutely nothing like “we wank to you in-car videofeed”-Tesla and “we spy for the Chinese government”-BYD

              A security hole exposing data that the users have agreed to share is nothing like companies willfully breaking user integrity.

              You know this of course, you just don’t like being corrected.