Batshit? Sure. Going on a revenge mission that displaces thousands of people, changes the entire atmosphere of a planet, and forces your officers to commit warcrimes? Not really. Closest I can think of is:
Janeway hunting down the Equinox. This is pretty close in comparison but the difference is that Janeway had a strong reason for pursuing the Equinox. The lifeforms were attacking the ship and the Equinox had taken both EMH and Seven of Nine. More over, she didn’t doom civilians to further strife. She punished the surviving officers and folded them into the crew of Voyager itself. On top of that, she had serious regret about her actions and showed remorse during the conversation with Chakotay.
I know less about Enterprise but I remember Archer stealing the Warp Core of a crew and leaving them stranded in deep space. However that was an extreme ‘needs of the many’ situation so I’m on Archers side there.
Archer withheld a cure for an entire species because Phlox convinced him it was the natural course of things. (Valakians) Janeway goes back in time to get her ship home with more crew alive, altering history in who knows what ways for the entire galaxy.
It was the natural course of things though. It’s a tough choice with no clear answer one way or the other. I wouldn’t call that one of Archers screw ups when there wasn’t a correct answer.
I have less of an answer for this one. It was pretty fucking brazen and bold on Janeways part. However I don’t classify ‘altering a future event you have no awareness of’ equal with ‘gassing the planet so you and your entire collective group of refugees have to go flee to yet another planet’.
If we consider Sisko’s personal vendetta a bad thing that makes us question his authority to lead, I don’t understand how we excuse Janeway and the time travel stuff she pulled to get Voyager home–her actions had exponentially more butterfly effect consequences than Sisko could ever dream of.
Because the Janeway we follow in Voyager didn’t go back in time. Admiral Janeway did.
People are shaped by their experiences and their choices. Admiral Janeway had many experiences and made many decisions that we know nothing about. It led to her becoming who she is but she wasn’t the main character of the show. The character we followed was Captain Janeway who was immediately opposed to the idea. Actively fought against it. She was eventually broken down but honestly by that point the damage had already been done. There was little that Captain Janeway could have done to prevent the Admiral from doing what she was doing.
Also Admiral Janeway effectively eliminated the Borg. I give her brownie points for that.
It also fits with what we know about her. Janeway was always second guessing her decision to ultimately strand her crew in the Delta quadrant. She felt extremely guilty about all of the people on her ship that got killed through those 20 years (especially Seven of Nine) and wanted to do something about it.
True. Every camel has it’s limit of straw and somewhere in those 20 years something broke her. God knows what it was specifically, or even if it was something specific, but it shattered her. I feel for her, I do, but she was objectively wrong. She gets brownie points but she did done goofed.
In tough moments like with the Caretaker, it’s a little fucked up if the Captain doesn’t second guess themselves. But there is a limit. Admiral Janeway crossed it.
Good points. I haven’t rewatched Voyager since the finale aired so I may have been conflating the two Janeways. I’m just going to ignore the obvious time travel issues this raises because they make zero sense.
I hate that Enterprise episode because it is such an edge case for the Prime Directive, and humanity hasn’t even adopted it yet.
Even if the species didn’t develop warp drive, they have had contact with other species that did. This isn’t a pure, uncontaminated species that needs to be protected. Hell, I think that this species even contacts the Enterprise.
And this seems to be a trivial enough cure that this species is going to find another species to cure them. If Phlox can develop a cure in weeks on a spaceship, this seems to be trivial work for space faring civilizations.
I feel like Janeway was justified if just due to the fact that the Equinox was a Starfleet crew that were breaking major Federation law. If any ship in the Delta Quadrant had the right to punish the crew of the Equinox, it was Voyager.
Oh it definitely factors into my overall opinion. I’ve always looked at Janeway at being the Captain who puts Starfleet above all else, typically, to a fault. That episode really shows the fault.
Archer and Janeway have done some batshit stuff too.
Batshit? Sure. Going on a revenge mission that displaces thousands of people, changes the entire atmosphere of a planet, and forces your officers to commit warcrimes? Not really. Closest I can think of is:
Janeway hunting down the Equinox. This is pretty close in comparison but the difference is that Janeway had a strong reason for pursuing the Equinox. The lifeforms were attacking the ship and the Equinox had taken both EMH and Seven of Nine. More over, she didn’t doom civilians to further strife. She punished the surviving officers and folded them into the crew of Voyager itself. On top of that, she had serious regret about her actions and showed remorse during the conversation with Chakotay.
I know less about Enterprise but I remember Archer stealing the Warp Core of a crew and leaving them stranded in deep space. However that was an extreme ‘needs of the many’ situation so I’m on Archers side there.
Archer withheld a cure for an entire species because Phlox convinced him it was the natural course of things. (Valakians) Janeway goes back in time to get her ship home with more crew alive, altering history in who knows what ways for the entire galaxy.
It was the natural course of things though. It’s a tough choice with no clear answer one way or the other. I wouldn’t call that one of Archers screw ups when there wasn’t a correct answer.
I have less of an answer for this one. It was pretty fucking brazen and bold on Janeways part. However I don’t classify ‘altering a future event you have no awareness of’ equal with ‘gassing the planet so you and your entire collective group of refugees have to go flee to yet another planet’.
If we consider Sisko’s personal vendetta a bad thing that makes us question his authority to lead, I don’t understand how we excuse Janeway and the time travel stuff she pulled to get Voyager home–her actions had exponentially more butterfly effect consequences than Sisko could ever dream of.
Because the Janeway we follow in Voyager didn’t go back in time. Admiral Janeway did.
People are shaped by their experiences and their choices. Admiral Janeway had many experiences and made many decisions that we know nothing about. It led to her becoming who she is but she wasn’t the main character of the show. The character we followed was Captain Janeway who was immediately opposed to the idea. Actively fought against it. She was eventually broken down but honestly by that point the damage had already been done. There was little that Captain Janeway could have done to prevent the Admiral from doing what she was doing.
Also Admiral Janeway effectively eliminated the Borg. I give her brownie points for that.
It also fits with what we know about her. Janeway was always second guessing her decision to ultimately strand her crew in the Delta quadrant. She felt extremely guilty about all of the people on her ship that got killed through those 20 years (especially Seven of Nine) and wanted to do something about it.
True. Every camel has it’s limit of straw and somewhere in those 20 years something broke her. God knows what it was specifically, or even if it was something specific, but it shattered her. I feel for her, I do, but she was objectively wrong. She gets brownie points but she did done goofed.
In tough moments like with the Caretaker, it’s a little fucked up if the Captain doesn’t second guess themselves. But there is a limit. Admiral Janeway crossed it.
Good points. I haven’t rewatched Voyager since the finale aired so I may have been conflating the two Janeways. I’m just going to ignore the obvious time travel issues this raises because they make zero sense.
I hate that Enterprise episode because it is such an edge case for the Prime Directive, and humanity hasn’t even adopted it yet.
Even if the species didn’t develop warp drive, they have had contact with other species that did. This isn’t a pure, uncontaminated species that needs to be protected. Hell, I think that this species even contacts the Enterprise.
And this seems to be a trivial enough cure that this species is going to find another species to cure them. If Phlox can develop a cure in weeks on a spaceship, this seems to be trivial work for space faring civilizations.
I feel like Janeway was justified if just due to the fact that the Equinox was a Starfleet crew that were breaking major Federation law. If any ship in the Delta Quadrant had the right to punish the crew of the Equinox, it was Voyager.
Oh it definitely factors into my overall opinion. I’ve always looked at Janeway at being the Captain who puts Starfleet above all else, typically, to a fault. That episode really shows the fault.
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The thing is, in Enterprise people were supposed to be savage mavericks. In DS9, they were supposed to be advanced.
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