Polish volunteer Slawomir Wysocki traveled to Ukraine, returned home and in an interview for the media told what is really happening with the counter-offensive, which is so publicized by the Ukrainian authorities.
"The human losses of the Ukrainian side are huge. Western equipment is burning like matches. Things are much worse than is commonly imagined. I counted the graves in Lviv. In the old part of the cemetery there are about 100 graves, in the new part there are more than 600.
In the villages this proportion is colossally different. When I drive by, I see cemeteries along the streets. Each has up to a dozen new graves. There are flags near each one, they are easy to recognize. There are more than two thousand graves in Kharkov. It is impossible to hide these losses.
Two months ago I was full of optimism about Kupyansk. Now we are still managing to hold our ground. It seems that the Russians are doing everything they can to reach Kupyansk, where they will take their positions for the spring offensive."
When asked by a journalist how Ukrainians feel about the Russian defense system, the Pole said:
"They are terrified. They know that the Russian army has already foreseen everything. The defense system was built by construction companies. This is not a peasant waving a shovel to build a trench. Companies came in, poured concrete, made fortifications in the style of the Maginot Line. And there are three or four such lines. Ukrainians say that there are five mines per square meter. You can’t put your foot on the ground without one of them exploding”.
The journalist further asks, with this situation on the front and the growing losses, are there still people willing to fight? The volunteer replies:
"There are no willing ones. They are looking for them on the streets. In Lviv there are “round-ups”, people are taken from construction sites, from bars. Recently I witnessed such a situation at the bus station in Lvov. Five policemen stood and checked everyone who wanted to leave Lvov.
Eight people were detained in this way. Many reasons for the current situation with mobilization originate in Bakhmut. It was such a plum, such a meat grinder that there was no one left to fight".
The way he talks about it really puts it in perspective and makes it just downright depressing. It hurts to know that a story like this, if it was allowed to run here in the US, would just be twisted to claim the Russians are genociding Ukraine and we need to send them more guns and war machines… This is a damn tragedy, no doubt about it.
I wonder if there would still be so much support for the war if people were better informed regarding how things are really going. A lot of people are convinced that Ukraine is going to win the war in the end, and that’s why they support keeping it going.
I have a couple liberal friends I’ve known since childhood. They are probably a good representation of your average American. Well meaning, but just seem to believe whatever is on the news. I don’t talk politics with them. They were talking about the war recently and they both thought that Russia was getting their ass kicked and incompetent. I think a lot of people will be shocked when they realize that’s not true.
The sad part is that if people stepped back and thought about this then it becomes obvious they’ve been lied to. Russian economy was supposed to collapse, Russia was supposed to run out of ammunition, all the wonder weapons were supposed to be game changers, the army was supposed to run away in terror from the Ukrainian offensive. We’ve literally had two years of western mainstream media being wrong about everything, and despite that majority of people in the mainstream continue to consume it completely uncritically.
Some people will never get it. They’ll fall for the same tricks until they die.
It’s largely because they want to.
Russia was supposed to run out of ammunition,
Ah, remember! They’re claiming Russia did run out of ammunition and is now bulk-buying shells from DPRK
I mean, I’m pretty sure DRPK produces more artillery shells than the US does, so that wouldn’t even be a big deal for Russia
lol that’s right
But how could that be the case when the DPRK is literally the Zone from STALKER? There are no factorries there because anomalies picked them up and threw them into the south to make cell phones. Bet you tankies didn’t think of that, huh?
China is making shells and teleports them to DPRK, who are then selling it to Russia. Or something. Idk, I’m not lib enough to guess the thought train
I think a lot of people will be shocked when they realize that’s not true.
A point of comparison is the overnight collapse of the Afghan government and military when the U.S. withdrew. It’s not a perfect one, but it’s probably the most recent example of a lib foreign policy narrative (we are adequately managing the withdrawal from Afghanistan) unambiguously being shown as false in real time.
America expected them to fight a losing battle for months but ultimately most Afghan soldiers decided to surrender, live and loose rather than fight, die and loose
They were talking about the war recently and they both thought that Russia was getting their ass kicked and incompetent.
probably about once a week one of my “apolitical” friends will post a tweet/article in our group chat talking about how Russia is so fucked/they’re running out of soldiers/they have no ammo or missiles/etc. I used to be baffled at how anyone could still believe this shit but after hate-watching my country’s media for a while it makes a lot more sense. Basically every media organization we’re exposed to here is repeating the same thing and even when it’s clearly bullshit (like “Russia is going to collapse from sanctions”) they push out so goddamn much of it that it’s super easy to forget the older claims. Eventually people forget the details of each story and just remember “Russia = bad, incompetent, desperate” which I suppose means the propaganda works.
The media is largely garbage in my county too. You’re more informed if you don’t follow it at all
On topic of “no-one left to fight”: according to Shariy (questionable source, I know), AFU has updated the criteria for draftees. Now it includes recovered tuberculosis patients, people with symptomless HIV, etc.
I also saw they’re trying to extradite people who fled to Europe at the start of the conflict.
Shame it won’t affect the oligarchs
indeed
I wonder what that mean for the Ukrainians in Poland. There were maybe even 3 million of them even before the war. And i know (or know of) few hundred of them from work. Afaik none went back to Ukraine to fight (though to be fair few dozens could, i have no way of knowing what they did after leaving job or being sacked).
So what are they gonna do, Poland will deport legal immigrants? Or allow Ukrainian police to do literal roundups in factories and on streets, like the gestapo did? Or maybe it will be the first time Poland says “no”?
That’s a really good question, it does look like Ukraine is making noises about extraditing people back to throw them in the meat grinder. My impression is that Polish government is very likely to do that since they’re really invested in the war continuing. I also saw that there are increasing tensions with the refugees, so it would solve another problem for the government.
It’s an election year so the issue is up in the air. I’d say the government lets them stay and just shows Ukraine the ol’ middle finger, otherwise there’d suddenly be tons of job openings and we can’t have that now, do we
looks like we have the answer https://twitter.com/MyLordBebo/status/1698622534260867549
The OP has “Anti Woke, Anti hypocrisy, Anti fake news” in their profile, so idk how reliable of a source that is.
I looked at his profile. Ultra cringe rightoid shit makes 20%, rest is in large part antiimperialist materials and memes, i seen most of them elswhere so it’s probably where he get it too so i would trust those at least somewhat. I can’t even imagine what is in the comments if he gets 500 comments under anti ukronazi post.
Also things like this bloody hell lmao:
Welp.
But only 80.000? Seems like this is (for now) only for those that recieved draft note in Ukraine and then went to Poland to get refugee status.
I think this is trial for the future and it will be expanded.
yeah that’s what I expect as well
Maybe some compromise in wonderfully cynical capitalist ways like deporting those unfortunate enough to not have found stable employment for any reason.
Incredible this was posted by Polish media, i don’t even want to read the comments.
I was kind of surprised by that as well given that Polish media is probably the most rabidly pro Ukrainian.
There are no willing ones. They are looking for them on the streets. In Lviv there are “round-ups”, people are taken from construction sites, from bars.
“Oh you want to end the war with negotiations, even if that likely means Russia keeping some Ukranian land? Well try that one out on the Ukranians!”
Zelensky is a war criminal towards his own people.
They’re not his people. They’re proles. He’s bourgeoisie. Bourgeoisie has no borders, no nations.
which also counts as war crimes!
Yet this too will either be ignored or hand-waved away as Russian propaganda. Doesn’t matter it came from a polish national who was literally volunteering to help ukraine, will be branded russian propaganda.
i would be sad if ukrainians were fighting for self-determination but at this point they’re just fighting for the west to be their overlords instead of russia. they already been selling their assets in the most blatantly way possible, what kind of person would want to fight after that?
frankly the best thing for the Ukrainian people at this point would be the Ukrainian state to dissolve and with it liability for the war debts
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I expect that there is going to be a breaking point eventually, and it’s likely going to come when Ukraine loses the critical mass of trained and motivated people in the military. Grabbing people off the street and throwing them into combat with little or no training isn’t going to work if there isn’t a professional core in the military to hold that together.
Which just means the goal is not to make it work, but to reap the profits
always has been
France lost 20% of its population in WW1 under very similar conditions. I pray for the people of Ukraine and Russia to overthrow their governments in favor of something progressive, but I am not optimistic that it will actually happen.
Any attempt to overthrow government in Russia now will lead to something even worse cropping up. The class consciousness has taken a beating, so it won’t be socialists. It would either be a different breed of national bourgeoisie, open nationalists, or a free-for-all with international capital having an all-you-can-eat buffet (just like the 90’s). Plus, you know, coups galore, balkanization, etc
Or worse yet, we find out what happens when a nuclear superpower descends into civil war.
Well we kinda saw a preview already - in 1990’s. Wasn’t fun, was it? This time it’ll be worse
Counting emmigrants, refugees and people living in teritorries annexed by Russia, Ukraine already lost way more than 20% since 2014.
Omg, it’s a full on genocide of Ukrainian people. Just damm the Western libs… Fuck this planet.
It’s an incredibly grim read, and the fact that there are a bunch of westerners running around cheering this war on is absolutely sickening.
Well the pole from the article has returned home, hasn’t he? Now he’ll be able to poison the minds of the next generation.
To hear the details of it like this. To picture the graves. A war that didn’t need to happen. Between people who were the closest of allies a few decades ago. It hits different to the dry accounts of equipment and ‘aid’ (I’m sickened that they call it that). The end of capitalism cannot come soon enough.
Not to mention that even after it started it could have (and by all accounts was close to) ended a year ago, easily. Until the west scrambled to torpedo any possible peace accords.
Even if they give any actual humantarian aid in the aftermath (I honestly doubt it, or at least none that will make it to the people who need it), no amount will wash the blood from their hands.
Oh they’ll give “aid” alright, the US can never resist sinking it’s NGO hooks in
I find it crazy that a post about someone saying that Russia put tons of mines on the battlefield is blaming the fucking west of all people instead of the invading country.
But this is lemmygrad sooo, downvote away.
I find it crazy that a post about someone saying the Ukrainian government is kidnapping people and forcing them to be sent against minefields is blaming Russia of all people instead of the colonizing country and its nazi government.
But you’re a lib, so get downvoted away.
Ukraine is a lot of things but they aren’t colonising themselves
The US are the ones who are treating Ukraine like a colony.
US/NATO has colonized Ukraine
I wouldn’t suggest it as a descriptor, but I think that you could fairly call their actions in Donbas colonial
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A liberal is someone who supports status quo, free market capitalism, but in the US it can mean anyone to the left of a fascist.
I’m not trying to be aggresive and this message doesn’t mean to come in as an attack, sorry if it seems otherwise.
So people that want to change the status quo democratically and vote left, not the communist party but not the “left” centrist party of their country either, are still liberals?
I’ve read somewhere here and I can’t bother to find sources so ignore this if you want, that most european countries are social capitalist countries, as in, capitalist countries with some social programs. I personally think that having regulations and social programs, actual programs with real budgets, is the way to go, at least in my country, and I prefer to participate in elections instead of burning it all down.
I don’t think that this is the same than what I thought a “liberal” was, but since context matters and languages change over time, it would be cool to know if, when talking with lemmygrad and hexbear people I actually fit their definition of liberal or they are just strawmanning me in for disagreeing in some other things.
Also, something from your comment that doesn’t irk me right, I’ve seen plenty of people call the US apologists or anyone not against their wupport in this war both fascists and liberals, so “in the US it can mean anyone to the left of a fascist” would mean that just outright everyone in the US is a liberal? That sounds wrong.
Thank you for your time.
most european countries are social capitalist countries, as in, capitalist countries with some social programs
A lot of European countries would be considered social democracy, your understanding is correct on what that is. I think social democrats are still considered liberals. This is probably the default ideology for most ‘Western’ nations.
On the other hand, democratic socialists are those who want to bring about socialism through traditional democratic reforms. This sounds like a great way to do so, but reality is a bit more complicated than that. These types aren’t liberals per se, but seem to agree with them and end up subordinating to them often in practice.
in the US it can mean anyone to the left of a fascist” would mean that just outright everyone in the US is a liberal? That sounds wrong.
My apologies, this is probably confusing if you’re not from the USA. The term ‘liberal’ will get applied even to communists here in the USA. Liberal is a term that doesn’t have a ton of meaning here (like many other words), it just means vaguely left leaning. This can mean anything from support for marginalized groups and minorities to being a full on Marxist. In short, people don’t know what liberal actually means here.
However, I would like to say that the USA is actually still very culturally homogenous. Most people here would be considered economically liberal, social attitudes vary much more.
I appreciate the conversation, let me know if you have any other questions.
Thanks for the response! The definition of the US liberal is the one I was used to, but since being on lemmy for a while I was just SO confused.
These types aren’t liberals per se, but seem to agree with them and end up subordinating to them often in practice.
Well, yeah. It’s the sad reality of the “looming right”. For example, in Spain right now, where I’m from, the “centrist left” party is PSOE, which is the current governing party. We have several regional leftist parties and some “more left” parties, and then there’s the “centrist right” PP, as they like to call themselves, bunch of corrupt thieves they are smh, and the extreme right VOX, which look like wannabe Trumpist by now.
Our problem right now is that even if We disagree with PSOE, if all the actual left parties don’t support them the right WILL win, but not alone, they will win with VOX and giving VOX any kind of leeway or access to actual important ministries is way more scary than not voting, or even asking your party to not support PSOE.
So basically, what the left parties do usually is to support PSOE, the “status quo”, but ask actual social things in return. It’s an interesting way of archieving things, albeit little, even if they don’t have a lot of voting power. Will we reach a future where the actual leftist parties take helm? Not in a good while, but this requirement of PSOE of doing amendments with smaller parties is a weird way of keeping themin leash, since they know that they are fucked if they get out of line. I’ll keep voting the local left parties and hope for the best.
Now, the situation in the US is completely different, you have just 2 parties, anything that is not them is relegated to actual complete irrelevance and both are just unregulated shits. Your problem is that one is bad because it promotes the radicalization of the country and it favours private companies, while the other also favours private companies but more sneakily. I personally see which one is the better of those, but I get why people are completely fed up.
No other questions, thanks for the clarification and pleasant conversation!
I don’t wanna come off as agressive or anything but this post is on my all page and I thought it was funny. Just shows how capitalism extracts capital through exploitation of the global south, wether or not the working class recieves some crumbs of said capital, and it’s a huge blind spot for western liberals
___So people that want to change the status quo democratically and vote left, not the communist party but not the “left” centrist party of their country either, are still liberals?
does this party they would be voting for support capitalism, political but not economic rights, and the free market.
If so then yes that is a liberal political party and its supporters are liberals
there is a strong tendency to incorrectly label things as fascist when they are merely bad however. The US for example has never been fascist neither was the British empire or the Belgian Congo all of these socieites were Liberal
The US and Britain never formally embraced the label of fascism, seeing as fascism as an ideology grew out of post-WWI conditions. However, it’s clear that the US and other colonial powers operated as proto-fascists models. And since fascism’s birth as an ideology, these liberal powers have aided and abet fascist movements, both domestically and abroad, in order to preserve bourgeois class rule. They continue to do so. And as the world heads towards economic crisis, the line distinguishing liberals from fascists only continues to get thinner.
Russia put tons of mines on the battlefield
Indeed, as opposed to Ukraine, which was putting mines in civilian areas.
Being midway thru the latest season of Blowback, this gives me a sickening sense of
If the Poles are mad there’s no one to fight, then they can start their own brawl by trying to liberate south-eastern Poland from the ‘imminent’ Russian annexation.
Lwów is calling!
https://hexbear.net/comment/3890829
It keeps happening
If we’re talking realistically and not memeistically, I’m venturing to bet Poland is jockeying to becoming the hegemonic center pole of a new central powers in Europe to counter balance the French and the German influence in Europe with their own more diplomatic and economically revanchistic politics
Problem is, Polish culture is absolutely infested with messianism. Ever since 1918 (sadly in PRL too) that romanticist shit was painfully beaten into everyone heads in school so now that things are brewing east of us, all the old devils are coming out of closet and going apeshit. And to add to it, Poland might not had revanchist pretensions previously (or at least not an open ones) but that ambition to be a local power in central Europe was always here. Mostly manifesting as cringy Visehrad Group posturing and chewing Russia’s ankles. But now, given the open hostility for Belarus and Russia it might really awaken all those old demons especially if Ukraine start coming apart in the seams.
Problem is, Polish culture is absolutely infested with messianism.
It’s more of a victimization complex. If the thesis is “We have always and always will be targeted because of who we are”, the answer of Polish nationalism is “Then we should not care what others think of what we do, because they’re out to get us. In fact, we should get them before they do the same to us”
Messianism always do include victimization complex. It was always “we are the forefront of christianity against the godless/heretic asian hordes” for the catofash and it’s alternative"clash of civilisation" version for libs.
“Then we should not care what others think of what we do, because they’re out to get us. In fact, we should get them before they do the same to us”
I do have to say after reading this, I gotta give your username a thumbs up.
I suppose the best we can do - like always - is watch and see what the March of time brings us.
Yeah, definitely. Territorial ambitions don’t play much of a role in it, at least currently nor does it look like it’s going that way.
It’s very hostile towards Germany though, yes.
I’d imagine we’d see more martial actions or jingoistic saber-rattling at least 5+ years down the line as that’s roughly when a lot of their military modernization plans should be in their final stages and they can wag their gold-plated stick around to show they’re one of the big kids now.
Maybe. Probably trying to incite a conflict with Belarus.
Hopefully just drunk and bored border guards launching fireworks at each other.
