hey folks, we’ll be quick and to the point with this one:
we have made the decision to defederate from lemmy.world and sh.itjust.works. we recognize this is hugely inconvenient for a wide variety of reasons, but we think this is a decision we need to take immediately. the remainder of the post details our thoughts and decision-making on why this is necessary.
we have been concerned with how sustainable the explosion of new users on Lemmy is–particularly with federation in mind–basically since it began. i have already related how difficult dealing with the explosion has been just constrained to this instance for us four Admins, and increasingly we’re being confronted with external vectors we have to deal with that have further stressed our capabilities (elaborated on below).
an unfortunate reality we’ve also found is we just don’t have the tools or the time here to parse out all the good from all the bad. all we have is a nuke and some pretty rudimentary mod powers that don’t scale well. we have a list of improvements we’d like to see both on the moderation side of Lemmy and federation if at all possible–but we’re unanimous in the belief that we can’t wait on what we want to be developed here. separately, we want to do this now, while the band-aid can be ripped off with substantially less pain.
aside from/complementary to what’s mentioned above, our reason for defederating, by and large, boils down to:
- these two instances’ open registration policy, which is extremely problematic for us given how federation works and how trivial it makes trolling, harassment, and other undesirable behavior;
- the disproportionate number of moderator actions we take against users of these two instances, and the general amount of time we have to dedicate to bad actors on those two instances;
- our need to preserve not only a moderated community but a vibe and general feeling this is actually a safe space for our users to participate in;
- and the reality that fulfilling our ethos is simply not possible when we not only have to account for our own users but have to account for literally tens of thousands of new, completely unvetted users, some of whom explicitly see spaces like this as desirable to troll and disrupt and others of whom simply don’t care about what our instance stands for
as Gaywallet puts it, in our discussion of whether to do this:
There’s a lot of soft moderating that happens, where people step in to diffuse tense situations. But it’s not just that, there’s a vibe that comes along with it. Most people need a lot of trust and support to open up, and it’s really hard to trust and support who’s around you when there are bad actors. People shut themselves off in various ways when there’s more hostility around them. They’ll even shut themselves off when there’s fake nice behavior around. There’s a lot of nuance in modding a community like this and it’s not just where we take moderator actions- sometimes people need to step in to diffuse, to negotiate, to help people grow. This only works when everyone is on the same page about our ethos and right now we can’t even assess that for people who aren’t from our instance, so we’re walking a tightrope by trying to give everyone the benefit of the doubt. That isn’t sustainable forever and especially not in the face of massive growth on such a short timeframe.
Explicitly safe spaces in real life typically aren’t open to having strangers walk in off the street, even if they have a bouncer to throw problematic people out. A single negative interaction might require a lot of energy to undo.
and, to reiterate: we understand that a lot of people legitimately and fairly use these instances, and this is going to be painful while it’s in effect. but we hope you can understand why we’re doing this. our words, when we talk about building something better here, are not idle platitudes, and we are not out to build a space that grows at any cost. we want a better space, and we think this is necessary to do that right now. if you disagree we understand that, but we hope you can if nothing else come away with the understanding it was an informed decision.
this is also not a permanent judgement (or a moral one on the part of either community’s owner, i should add–we just have differing interests here and that’s fine). in the future as tools develop, cultures settle, attitudes and interest change, and the wave of newcomers settles down, we’ll reassess whether we feel capable of refederating with these communities.
thanks for using our site folks.
no, we very literally do just mean like, porn communities that allow for shotacon/lolicon and similar–the context here is porn instances
That’s not illegal, though, or even especially legally dubious.
quick vibe check: i am extremely not interested in you trying to debate me on whether content like lolicon and shotacon is or is not legally dubious–even if i somehow ceded this point to you, it’s not going to change our judgement because it’s at best incredibly fucking weird and we want nothing to do with it. please read the room here.
Though it’s not something I personally enjoy, it is very important to me that I make a point of sticking up for even the weirdest and grossest content out there that isn’t hurting anyone, because a) freedom of expression must include art that disturbs me personally or it is meaningless, and b) if you ignore people going after art just because it’s gross, eventually someone will decide the art YOU like is gross. But even if I disapproved of lolicon and shotacon, I would still not be down with you lying about its legality, because I happen to have principles.
Ban me or whatever if you must, but someone has to point out bullshit when it crops up.
Have you considered that people just don’t want literal paedophile content whether it’s legal or not in their servers?
So, i partially agree in principle thanks to Neil Gaiman, the law should not punish people for what’s essentially victimless crimes (unlike IRL CP there’s no one being hurt here, just people drawing… things…), but on the other hand this is not about laws and the government not arresting you, is about this particular community. You’re still free to host all that up to what the law allows you where you are, but this particular community has no obligation or desire to let this pass here.
I’d say let it be legal, let the people create, host and distribute that to people who care about it, but that doesn’t mean everybody is obligated to welcome it. I for one don’t, I’ve been a weeb for decades and have seen many things i cannot unsee, and would like to avoid all of that if possible.
Also, like the alt-text of that XKCD strip says, defending a position by citing free speech is sort of the ultimate concession: you’re saying that the most compelling thing you can say for your position is that it’s not literally illegal to express.
I’m not saying that this community should welcome it here. Like, not remotely saying that. Even leaving aside any other issues, this community disallows porn. I’m literally just saying that claiming it’s illegal is nonsense. Hell, I wasn’t even going to get into the moral side of things until alyaza took the tone they did.
This community doesn’t even disallow porn though. The staff are just comfortable drawing the line where they have.
Your comment further down about how “It’s pixels that look absolutely nothing like real human children.” Is incredibly disingenuous as the entire point of loli/shota is creating stylized pornographic art that looks like children, it doesn’t matter how well they achieve that goal, the subject matter is the same. Frankly it is not “harmless” as you say it is.