i think the implication regarding “Don’t blame me, I never owned slaves!” comes moreso from the fact that descendants of white people not wanting to address that their ancestors had owned slaves and to make up for it.
Just because your ancestors had owned slaves but you don’t doesn’t automatically absolve you from the fact that your ancestors had caused damage to the ethnicity that white people took slaves from; and that you should address it, admit it was horrific of them to do so and to make up for it.
now, idk if your ancestors had owned slaves; but if they didn’t, good on them - this doesn’t apply to you specifically. but it would still be cool if you tried to make lives better for marginalized people.
Just because your ancestors had owned slaves but you don’t doesn’t automatically absolve you from the fact that your ancestors had caused damage to the ethnicity that white people took slaves from; and that you should address it, admit it was horrific of them to do so and to make up for it.
So I’m damned by the virtue of being born white? I’m not even Anglo. Pretty sure none of my ancestors ever had anything to do with anyone of African descent. Unless you count the ones that lived in USSR and through their labour helped African nations. But I’ve re-read your comment twice, and I guess it doesn’t matter?
I don’t see it as a “sin” per se. As a white person living in a society dominated by systemic white supremacy, it is your responsibility to undermine that white supremecy and do what you can to make things easier for POC.
Asking white people to feel guilty is liberal idealism. I think it is important to acknowlege the history, then act in what ways one can to fight white supremecy.
If one feels alienated that there is more representation by people that are not white in media, imagine how all media of non white people feel in that similar vein, but it is only straight white male protaganists.
If you look even deeper into whiteness you’ll see that there is litte there in terms of culture except white supremecy. If you want cultural ties perhaps one should culturally bond over something other than treating people like shit. The less you care about your whiteness the less people complaining about white people will bother you. There is no reason for any part of your ego to take pride in how white you are. If you find yourself clinging to that, find something else wonderful about you to take pride in, so you can let go of that toxic pride.
He’s not in the United States. How is his society built on “white supremacy”? How is anything you said relevant to anyone outside the US or anglosphere?
His family had nothing to do with owning slaves because their society never interacted with the slave trade in any way. In fact, there’s a strong chance that his white ancestors were literally slaves themselves in the Russian Empire. I know mine were.
Then that’s what he should’ve led with. Not “well I never owned slaves”/“well my ancestors never owned slaves” (which he led out with both, and then the typical kyle “woe is me” response); as all of those comments are so immediately toxic that I’d believe that a milquetoast suburbanite Amerikan kyle was spitting them before anyone else. If you don’t understand the necessity for my hypervigilance, and the hypervigilance of those like me about matters of seeming white supremacy, then you don’t get the thrust of the assignment at all.
Actually, the more I mull this over, I don’t get where any part of this meme needed to be responded to if it’s the case that he’s just straight up Russian with formerly-enslaved Russian ancestors. This is one of those things where if the shoe doesn’t fit, you keep it pushing and keep your mouth shut; not crocodile-tear like you’re play-acting kylery.
He asked what a certain, little known thing on the picture was since it is an incredibly niche thing that is virtually unknown outside the US. After he received an answer, everyone, including you, dogpiled on him like he was some random chud who was defending his families history and their right to slavery. Yes, he did get defensive with pretty poor choices of words, but it was probably overwhelming to get blamed for a lot of things that are completely irrelevant to himself and his family history.
He was just confused, then stated the basic fact of “Oh, my family didn’t own slaves”. Which, granted, is a very common conservative talking point; but in this situation it is funnily enough correct and I believe that he meant that earnestly and innocently. You can’t expect a person outside of the US to know about every modicum of American culture and know how to work around it.
Hyper vigilance is necessary, but it might be best to confirm suspicions first before going on the attack. That’ll just weird people out and alienate those who agree with you. Especially if you know little about the person and that person has been here for years without issue.
If he’s Russian he can be proud of being Russian. They have a cool history and culture in their own right that can be celebrated without undermining other people. Why cling to being white when you can be Russian?
I agree, but I don’t think that he was clinging to or defending his whiteness, in fact on multiple occasions in the past Shrike has made his displeasure and hatred of being lumped into the “white” umbrella as he does not view himself as white.
If I’m reading why he’s trying to say correctly, I feel like he was more so exasperated of being lumped under the white umbrella with everyone else including Americans, and by extension he is now responsible for history and crimes that his ethnicity doesn’t have a sliver of connection to. That could definitely be extremely frustrating and almost erasing to a degree. It’s just extremely American-centric, and just lumping everyone under the same umbrella because they’re “white” in the American view.
i think the implication regarding “Don’t blame me, I never owned slaves!” comes moreso from the fact that descendants of white people not wanting to address that their ancestors had owned slaves and to make up for it.
Just because your ancestors had owned slaves but you don’t doesn’t automatically absolve you from the fact that your ancestors had caused damage to the ethnicity that white people took slaves from; and that you should address it, admit it was horrific of them to do so and to make up for it.
now, idk if your ancestors had owned slaves; but if they didn’t, good on them - this doesn’t apply to you specifically. but it would still be cool if you tried to make lives better for marginalized people.
So I’m damned by the virtue of being born white? I’m not even Anglo. Pretty sure none of my ancestors ever had anything to do with anyone of African descent. Unless you count the ones that lived in USSR and through their labour helped African nations. But I’ve re-read your comment twice, and I guess it doesn’t matter?
I don’t see it as a “sin” per se. As a white person living in a society dominated by systemic white supremacy, it is your responsibility to undermine that white supremecy and do what you can to make things easier for POC.
Asking white people to feel guilty is liberal idealism. I think it is important to acknowlege the history, then act in what ways one can to fight white supremecy.
If one feels alienated that there is more representation by people that are not white in media, imagine how all media of non white people feel in that similar vein, but it is only straight white male protaganists.
If you look even deeper into whiteness you’ll see that there is litte there in terms of culture except white supremecy. If you want cultural ties perhaps one should culturally bond over something other than treating people like shit. The less you care about your whiteness the less people complaining about white people will bother you. There is no reason for any part of your ego to take pride in how white you are. If you find yourself clinging to that, find something else wonderful about you to take pride in, so you can let go of that toxic pride.
He’s not in the United States. How is his society built on “white supremacy”? How is anything you said relevant to anyone outside the US or anglosphere?
His family had nothing to do with owning slaves because their society never interacted with the slave trade in any way. In fact, there’s a strong chance that his white ancestors were literally slaves themselves in the Russian Empire. I know mine were.
Also where does he have “toxic pride”???
Then that’s what he should’ve led with. Not “well I never owned slaves”/“well my ancestors never owned slaves” (which he led out with both, and then the typical kyle “woe is me” response); as all of those comments are so immediately toxic that I’d believe that a milquetoast suburbanite Amerikan kyle was spitting them before anyone else. If you don’t understand the necessity for my hypervigilance, and the hypervigilance of those like me about matters of seeming white supremacy, then you don’t get the thrust of the assignment at all.
Actually, the more I mull this over, I don’t get where any part of this meme needed to be responded to if it’s the case that he’s just straight up Russian with formerly-enslaved Russian ancestors. This is one of those things where if the shoe doesn’t fit, you keep it pushing and keep your mouth shut; not crocodile-tear like you’re play-acting kylery.
He asked what a certain, little known thing on the picture was since it is an incredibly niche thing that is virtually unknown outside the US. After he received an answer, everyone, including you, dogpiled on him like he was some random chud who was defending his families history and their right to slavery. Yes, he did get defensive with pretty poor choices of words, but it was probably overwhelming to get blamed for a lot of things that are completely irrelevant to himself and his family history.
He was just confused, then stated the basic fact of “Oh, my family didn’t own slaves”. Which, granted, is a very common conservative talking point; but in this situation it is funnily enough correct and I believe that he meant that earnestly and innocently. You can’t expect a person outside of the US to know about every modicum of American culture and know how to work around it.
Hyper vigilance is necessary, but it might be best to confirm suspicions first before going on the attack. That’ll just weird people out and alienate those who agree with you. Especially if you know little about the person and that person has been here for years without issue.
If he’s Russian he can be proud of being Russian. They have a cool history and culture in their own right that can be celebrated without undermining other people. Why cling to being white when you can be Russian?
I agree, but I don’t think that he was clinging to or defending his whiteness, in fact on multiple occasions in the past Shrike has made his displeasure and hatred of being lumped into the “white” umbrella as he does not view himself as white.
If I’m reading why he’s trying to say correctly, I feel like he was more so exasperated of being lumped under the white umbrella with everyone else including Americans, and by extension he is now responsible for history and crimes that his ethnicity doesn’t have a sliver of connection to. That could definitely be extremely frustrating and almost erasing to a degree. It’s just extremely American-centric, and just lumping everyone under the same umbrella because they’re “white” in the American view.
fair enough.