SO. MUCH. THIS.
Reduce. Repair. Recycle.
Most phones, break this at every step.
A big part of it is built in batteries that are difficult to replace. My phone has a removable battery and is on its third one now… still works fine and does everything I want it to, after 10 years of use.
Edit: It’s running Lineage Os 18 (android 11) not the original android 5(?) it came with, so security updates are not an issue.
It’s honorable that you struggle through 2013 Android, but using an internet enabled device that hasn’t received security updates in at least 7 years is a horrible idea.
Upgrade to a Fairphone at least, so you can keep replacing parts while also maintaining a base level of security.
He could be using a ROM with up to date security patches, I believe some phones from that era still have active custom ROM communities.
You’re correct, I’m running Lineage Os 18 (android 11)
I was considering that, seems unlikely to me, though.
Hell you can run Android 11 on a Galaxy S2.
I run Lineage Os 18 on it. (Android 11) with the latest security patch being from august 2023, so it’s pretty much up to date.
Wish I had heard of fairphone before I bought a pixel. I have to decline Google assistant popups every fucking day
Is google pixel so bad? I thought those are solid phones…
No, it’s just that on Lemmy anything that isn’t open source or self hosted is basically the devil.
Google Pixels are great phones, but they come loaded with Google Services and this is what this commenter complains about.
No it’s a very good phone, but I prefer to leave assistant off, and damned if it doesn’t pop up about once a day to ask if I’m it really really sure I don’t want to turn it on. Gets annoying
Pixels are the best phones to use for Graphene OS. You could also install some other degoogled Android distro, like LineageOS.
Do you mean a pop up from accidentally summoning Google assistant from holding the home button? I’ve had that issue on a couple Android phones and have had good luck going into settings and disabling it.
No I disabled the assistant. I tend to always do that, because in the past I’ve found them to be nuisances. This is the first phone where I’ll fart and it pops up “want to turn Google Assistant on?”
Pain in the ass.
You can put a rom on it. Like grafino West, or calix OS. That’ll get rid of the assistant pop-ups.
I realize the names are wrong, but this is Google voice to text. I’m going to stand by Google’s decision. This is clearly how they should be spelled
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This 100% since my screen has a small crack in the corner, I need a new screen just to get to the battery.
Because of this they want me to leave my phone with them for up to 30 days while they order the parts. It’s an iPhone XR. How can they not have parts?
I know it’s because apple makes it difficult on purpose.
Also there are not Apple Store in the country where I live, so I have to go through an authorized provider.
I’ll get a 15, but then I’m taking this phone to an unofficial repair shop to get it fixed up for cheap.
why would you keep buying Apple
Gonna take a couple guesses here.
- Given that they’re upgrading from a 5 year old phone (that wasn’t the flagship when it was released) that’s still getting iOS updates and that no Android phone has historically had a similar guaranteed amount of support (and currently only the Pixel 8 is rumored to offer more) they might want to be able to keep their next phone for 5+ years.
- Third party iOS apps are still generally better than third party Android apps and they might value the improved experience.
- They might not want to deal with manufacturer installed bloatware.
- They might otherwise be invested in the Apple ecosystem - AirPods, Apple Watch, MacBook, etc.
- They might want updates ASAP (instead of getting it months or weeks later).
- They might not want to think so hard about which Android phone to buy.
- They likely don’t value the advantages Android has over iOS (more customizable, earlier features, actual file system browsing, etc.) as highly as the advantages iOS has.
- They might not want to learn a new mobile OS, and they might value the consistency and simplicity of iOS.
- They might otherwise be invested in the Apple ecosystem - AirPods, Apple Watch, MacBook, etc.
did you mean vendor-locked?
So cringey. Some people do like Apple products. Nothing beats the Mac/macbook, Apple Watch, iPad or AirPods in their respective categories. Android and iPhone are basically feature wise the same so get what you like.
But, how is it any different than being vendor locked into android with their wearables or tablets or chromebooks? Apple made an ecosystem that works well together. Just because you don’t like it doesn’t mean it’s bad.
Apple’s anticompetitive, vendor lock-in features would make for a long, long list. I’ll leave some sources I found quickly: https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Vendor_lock-in#Apple_Inc https://www.pcworld.com/article/520658/apple_marketing_locks_you_in.html
I’m not an android fan by any means, it’s just the better option right now. Android is free software, I’m writing from an Android phone that has software from no corporation, not even Google. Can you compile iOS from source and remove Apple’s software from it? I don’t think so.
Even without installing custom ROMs, in any Android phone you can install apps from third party stores. In iPhones you can only get them from the App Store. You want to use a browser which isn’t a Safari skin on iOS? Not possible either. There’s a long list of similar anticompetitive behavior.
Your first comment was about a family of devices and now you only talk about the iPhone….because that’s the only device that has an open source alternative. Google/android/chrome offerings to every other category are worse than apples offerings, stuff is half baked. I’m all for open source but there is no denying how smooth all of apples devices just work with each other. That means something too. Not being open source do not equal bad automatically either.
I personally don’t care about taking source code and compiling it or installing custom roms. I have other hobbies that take my time. I want a devices that work 99% of the time without effort straight from the box.
If you enjoy non-apple products that’s great but this place just feels like the early days of Reddit where everyone is so anti-Apple because it’s cool. They do some shitty things (like basically every company ever) but they also do some really cool things too, like a family of 6 different products working seamlessly together.
they have sunk cost fallacied themselves
There are a few reasons like their extended software support and their built in text recognition and translation features.
I don’t live in my home country and this is very very useful.
Since everyone in America uses iOS and iMessage only, I’m kinda locked into iMessage for communications.
I know there are other messaging apps, but no one has any of them. There are people I communicate with just a few times a year and I can’t ask them to download an app just to occasionally chat or catch up.
I also use very few google services. In fact if you don’t count invidious I only have a gmail account which I use for no personal stuff like Netflix accounts and stuff.
The good news is in a pinch you can fry an egg on a 15
Ok but first manufacturers must “rethink” planned obsolescence and right to repair
I agree. I’m tired of always blaming the end users for everything
This.
we don’t “this” here.
Planned obsolescense is a myth. It’s just cost-benefit that makes old tech crappy. Tech keeps getting better, and supporting the old device is a pain for no extra money. And phone architecture is stupid so they need every single part supplier to provide updates if they want to update the OS, unlike PCs where the hardware is better-abstracted.
You’re either a troll or an uninformed idiot who has never done operating system development. A properly modularised OS can allow for minimal upkeep for older hardware. A leading example is Apple’s .kext system allowing for near 10 years of OS support both on macOS and iOS. Not that I think Apple is a great company but they do have some really good software development practices.
Also regardless of the technical explanination above, accepting a constant flow of e-waste for the sake of a new shiny year is just unethical regardless of the supposed reason.
I actually did do operating system development, at least back in school. But comparing Apple to everybody else is insane when Apple controls the full vertical stack of end to end hardware. You may as well compare them to the driver support on Nintendo or Toyota.
And also there’s the problem that the Android OS is based on Linux which handles the “wierd new hardware” problem by recompiling the kernel, which doesn’t work so well with closed-source binary drivers. And that’s before even getting into the ARM architecture.
I’m playing around with OS development only as a hobby currently. I don’t know much about black box insides of macOS however I have used third party drivers as well as looked into how the kext system is structured and it really seems like a master class of software engineering. Having the drivers structured hierarchically under categories/subsystems and with multiple kernel API revisions supported means the kexts work over a wider lifespan.
Also comparing Apple to the rest of industry is not completely unreasonable for one reason. Modern register level documentation is hidden under shitty NDA’s and aren’t even complete half the time, with the usually poorly written SDK being used as documentation instead. Even better is when parts of the SDK are fucking binaries with no hopes of figuring out where the bug lies. The top dog of course is no SDK whatsoever and instead opting to release a fixed, factory compiled linux kernel release for Android only. I believe this is what Qualcomm mostly do and why those Android releases have a fixed lifespan of 3-5 years. When this is how over half the Android phone SoC market operates, I wonder how half of them make it to market working as well as they do.
Linux on the other hand is just a mess (In more ways than one. I have low opinions of it). That is not a good example of modular driver support. The unwillingness of the Linux community from both userspace applications / libraries and kernelspace to maintain a versioned API system with rigorous testing for compliance and to instead create a moving target is nothing short of a fucking joke. It’s no wonder Android can’t easily maintain cross-generation support. Then there is the lack of support for running different versions of libraries side by side as necessary.
I run a Linux server for home use as it’s still king in this regard and have sometime attempted to use Linux as a desktop. However I eventually come to the same conclusion that it’s just too unstable and “patched together”. My daily driver is still a mac, no matter how much I want to move away due to Apple’s worsening business practices.
Sorry for getting heated. It just really boils me when people defend poor software development practices because it the “industry standard”. I disdain manufactured e-waste stemming from rubbish software development practices.
I’m not sure why you’re getting downvoted because your argument is right. Apple has a rather small number of hardware devices to support. That makes long term support a lot easier.
Edit: I mostly disagree with your previous argument though. Planned obsolescence is alive and thriving. I’ve seen so many PCB layouts where heat sensitive parts were placed right next to heat emitting ones that I cannot believe this is by accident.
Sir, you can prove someone wrong without insults. You need to chill a bit.
Sorry about that but it really boils me when people defend poor software development practices when making the point of supporting hardware for a long time is difficult.
Shh corporation bad giv updoot.
it’s not just phones or devices that need updates, though. None of my refrigerators, washing machines, dishwashers have ever lasted more than 10 years; I think the average is about 5 years before they stop working, get all rusty or a very expensive piece breaks so they are not worth repairing. Meanwhile all of my granma’s old kitchen appliances are still working perfectly after 60+ years of service.
Sure, it might be just that over-optimizing their production so they are more performant while being cheaper to make is also making them less durable, but I don’t see a lot of motivation from companies to go out of their way to build durable things either. And it’s not that I think Corporate = Bad; as you say it’s a cost/benefit thing, it’s just that the “benefit” companies try to maximize is their shareholders’, not our planet’s. It’s on Politics to create a legal framework where some of the cost to our planet is shared with companies (so they have incentives to make things durable/repairable again) and on us consumer to choose wisely what to buy, when and from whom.
maybe it’s my personality or i’m old but i keep my things (including tech) until they become unusable. i’ve never thought about upgrading my phone every couple of years. i kept my last phone for 6 years (it became a brick), my current phone is from 2018.
I intentionally buy things that I know I can use until they are unusable. I do not often buy anything from apple.
Me too. My phone is 10 years old, my microwave is 40 yrs old, my car is 24, my home theater amp is 25.
I take pride in taking care of my stuff and making it last as long as possible. It’s something I got from my grandmother who wouldn’t let anything go to waste. (She was a refugee from ww2, so she knew a thing or two about making things last and making due.) Obviously not everything can last that long, but if you get good quality things chances are it’ll be around a lot longer than if you just buy cheap or flashy stuff.
In the era when everyone seem to be taking out expensive contracts for new phones every year I have had just 4 smart phones in the past 20 ish years. They all reach the stage where they are just too slow for modern apps but I think we might finally be in the stage where compute power progress has slowed that the current phone might get an open source Lineage et el on it for a decent period of time with multiple battery swaps.
Me too. my phone is from 2017 and I’m fine with it. It’s part of your personality, to preserve things. Associating personality traits to being “old” or to any stigmatized aspect in our society is a dirty trick to manipulate people (in this case, used to force people into consumerism). Just be yourself, and don’t feel bad about it.
Legalize Right To Repair Ban Planned Obsolescence
Boom, solved the problem. But once again it’s easier to shame Joe Q. Public than hold the real criminals accountable.
Won’t solve the problem of people spending 1000+ dollars a year on the latest and newest because they need it as a status symbol to fill the vacuous hole where a personality would be.
and I’d wager more people are buying new phones every year for that reason, than due to forced obsolescence.
Some people will do that regardless, but I would keep all of my phones for longer if the batteries were easily changeable and they didn’t eventually grind to a halt. I loved my Pixel 3a and would still be using it today if I could.
living from the ego is a choice. everyone is free to examine their values and beliefs, and choose a life that supports their well being. not doing this is pricy.
Isnt gonna solve the problem entirely but will make a huge difference. Cant say anything about the iphone craze in US but at least here most change their mobile only when issues pop up and repairs get too expensive or impossible.
It’s not even everywhere in the US, where I live there are people still using flip phones out of necessity.
And I’ve only really ever changed smart phones twice myself, new phones are just too dang expensive.
I mean if they can afford that, good on them I guess? But it really would help for the rest of us who ya know, don’t base their personality on whatever they’re lugging around in their pockets.
Ban glue in non-waterproof electronics. I remember when I didn’t need to risk destroying a device with a heat-gun to open it up and repair it like 10 years ago, but y’know, everything needed to be thinner.
Thats one thing that boggles me… I’ve never heard a single person go “Y’know, this phone is nice…but I wish it was thinner and more fragile”.
I’m convinced they just want to make phones thinner, and push screens further to the edge (or in the case of Galaxy, around the edge and down the side) just to make them more likely to break when dropped.
You’re on Lemmy. That means you’re probably not a “form over function” shopper, y’know?
True
I get where you’re coming from, and maybe I was just lucky, but holy hell my note 10+ was a TANK despite the reach around screen. Miss that phone already, I got talked into swapping when I moved and had to change Internet not long ago. A month after having my pixel 7 pro, and one fall from the edge of my desk onto the carpet, and the bottom half of the screen shits itself lol
In waterproof ones too. It isn’t hard to make use of stainless steel screws and a simple O-Ring (see computer waterblocks).
Reminder that industrial handheld computers, despite being way more water and everything else resistant than an iPhone will ever be, and whose environmental resistance is absolutely critical to their function and not just a marketing bullet point, are also repairable and upgradable. They work for decades with periodic maintainance which is actually why heavy industry seems so “behind the times” on upgrading their equipment, they simply don’t have to because their existing gear is so resilient.
If what you seek is a repairable phone, check out the Fairphone 5. Got mine for a week now (transparent édition), incredible little machine. Not as waterproof as an IPhone, but way more repairable. And supported until at least 2028 (maybe 2031).
I have a fairphone 4 and I love it.
It’s impossible if the vendors stop shipping os updates. I can’t use an out of date phone for my works 2fa push. Kept my phone for 5 years and it was still going, but the planned obsolescence got me.
Have work issue you a hardware FIDO token (such as a yubikey) or give you separate cell phone just for work. They legally can’t make you upgrade but if your phone can’t get enough security updates to install an Authenticator it is probably time to upgrade to be honest.
the thing is most of the phones are fully capable of running the modern version of the operating system they shipped with but the vendors stop supporting the products to make you buy more shit
Writing this on an iPX which got its last update this week, 6 years old now but I’m just waiting for my banking apps to require iOS17. People will blame development costs for excluding older phones but there is no reason iPhones should not get iOS updates for 10+ years to save App developers the work.
Well there is, if you wish for apps created by others than large corporations with hundreds or thousands of developers. It will get better with time now when progress is slower.
But phones 10 years ago were absolutely trash compared to those we have today.
My dad still uses my iPhone6, still perfectly usable, admittedly that is a 9 year old phone but I’m not seeing anything making that one obsolete in the near future.
As you say modern phones are not progressing that fast any more, it’s time we made Apple and Google support OS updates for longer. Apple certainly charge app developers enough for the burden to be on them and not the 3rd parties.
I don’t think iPhone 6 had 5G cellular or WiFi6. As those become dominant, iPhone 6 will seem hopelessly slow.
No more updates. Probably no more parts, like batteries.
There have been a lot of hardware improvements over time. iPhone 6 might text and talk, but most of use use a phone for a lot more. It’s time
Smartphones have been “good enough” for a while now. Enough power and battery to do all the things needed for enough time before running out of battery.
IMHO there are 2 reasons we still regularly upgrade.
- “Obsolescence” wether it would be perceived new hardware features or just new software not being available
- Use/breakage (I include batteries dying in that) with no reasonable way to replace parts
I’ve had a few phones over the years some of them I “legitimately” just broke (one had a cracked mb after a bike accident) I broke my second to last phone trying to replace the battery (thought I would be able to, broke the screen). The fact that everything is glued down and made to not be replaceable irked me so much that my current phone is a Fairphone. Replacing the battery takes 1 minute and requires no tools. Replacing the screen takes like 5 min and 8 screws. I plan on using this phone for at least 5 years more if possible. But I understand not everybody can shell out 600 dollars for an “OK” phone.
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If only new batteries were easily swappable…
They will be in the EU
flip phones have those, but i’ve never had to swap one. the longest i’ve had one before it broke was ~ 7 years and a charge still lasted about half as long as when it was new (2 weeks vs 4).
they actually fit in a pocket and last a lot longer between charges. i don’t ‘need’ the internet on me 24/7, so i’ll keep getting those as long as they’re still made.
Well, that’s good, but most other people either need to or want to.
Yes, I have one of those as well, but a smartphone is something I carry anyway.
It’s good practice to buy at least one or two new smartphones per year.
Thank you for the tip, Mr Business Man!
Battery degrades every six months, and most batteries sold are either cheap but fake or QC-passed but as expensive as a brand-new phone.
Dude the downvotes, it’s a joke. Should I put /s? lol
Battery degradation is real, but typically lithium batteries in phones should last 18-24 months before their noticeability bad enough to want to warrant a replacement.
But, if you’re constantly leaving it in a hot car, draining it to near 0%, or otherwise stressing it out, it will will significantly worse off, even at 6 months.
The fairphone and terracube are starting to take off. Being able to replace hardware was a staple in early cell phone design and hopefully will come back.
I wonder why nobody has made some sort of headphone Jack module already
Yeah… the old terracube has one and I loved it. Now I have a USB c to audio adapter and it sucks.
“I’ll just pop right out of this here USB slot so easily and inconvenience you at random times, and you’ll thank me for the tiny space you saved” -Dong
I would consider these if they weren’t still using Android. Anything with Google involved is unacceptable to me.
Fairphone allows you to unlock the bootloader and install an OS of your choice.
See https://support.fairphone.com/hc/en-us/articles/9979154556817-Google-free-Android
Fairphone is also pretty expensive to standards in my country as well. Although, a great concept.
I only upgrade when my phone literally dies or can’t support criticial software and security updates anymore. I upgraded from an iphone 6s to a 12 Pro Max 2 years ago and will probably hold on to this phone until it’s no longer supported.
Sure, let’s blame consumer for corporate policies
It’s both really. Too many people rock a cracked screen, then upgrade it as soon as they can. Rather than looking after their device or getting it repaired.
But at the same time, corporations limit device longevity due to bad practices. Like limited security updates, planned obsolescence and anti-repair policies.
In short, not enough people care enough, and the companies prey on this. Attacking the “upgrade culture” is valuable, as legislating against these bad practices can only happen if the people exert enough political pressure
Same situation as plastic straws. Let’s blame the public for using straws, when actually it’s industries and corporate policies that refuse to adopt better practices.
Phones have to easily repairable before you can blame consumers for upgrading. Cell phones are pretty essential for modern life and most of us don’t want to be without them for long. The upgrade allows for people to not have to worry about what to do when something out of warranty breaks. It is like fixing your car. In warranty, the manufacturer or dealer takes care of things. Out of warranty, you have to find a repair shop. Finding a repair shop is difficult. Trying to get a second or third quote on a broken car is difficult and costly.
The alternative is to make repair shops have transparent prices and make it easy for them to get oem parts. The other option is to force companies to warranty their phones for longer. Until the government does one of those you can’t blame consumers.
It is possible to find phones that are easy to repair in Europe. I think they are going to hit the American market in a few months.
So now that people have options, it is really on the consumer side.
Yeah, but that’s an insanely recent development
I know about the fairphone. It just now became available for sell in the US No one except maybe IT people know about it. Consumers have to know about the choice to make it. It is also ridiculous to point to one choice that isn’t available yet and blame the consumers.
I meant now that there will be an option. Plus, I’m not blaming, that would make no sense because I thought the phone wasn’t out yet.
At work my manager still rocks an old Motorola g5 plus. He says phones have reached peak performance and there’s no point of upgrading. Hes a humble, down to earth guy also make $210k/ year.
Oh I loved that phone! I still have it but I didn’t have the balls to replace the built in battery so I reluctantly decided to upgrade
He replaced the battery by himself. Ordered stuff from ifixit.
The problem is that there are security updates that those old phones need and aren’t getting. The whole “let’s tie the operating system binaries to the hardware” thing was always dumb, somehow Windows can handle binary-blob drivers that aren’t built into the OS.
Peak is definitely not true, but there is no point in upgrading for the foreseeable future.
I hope my phone lasts me decades. I don’t really see it being incapable of doing what I need it to unless we radically change how we use our phones.
I’m sure people have felt the same way about PCs, too. Ever since Sandy Bridge, there hasn’t really been a reason for most PC users to upgrade unless they were gaming or did some other CPU-intensive task.
I’ll tell you right now your phone wont last a decade.
That battery, even with light usage, will eventually degrade to the point you’ll have to charge it multiple times a day to keep it alive.
and then you’ll have to do the math and decide between getting a new battery and just getting a new phone.
Thats the decision i had to make when I needed a battery for my old phone… Did the math and found the cost of a new (to me) used phone was close enough to the cost of the replacement battery + labor that it was more value to me getting the newer phone, with newer OS, and still in the receiving update window than putting a aftermarket battery in my old phone.
Granted, the math gets heavily skewed in favor of a new battery if you are well experienced in cellphone disassembly and know you can do it without breaking the screen or back. I’m not, and any savings would go out the door if I broke anything, which is why I was going to let a professional do it.
I would listen to you, but I was using my previous phone for 5 years and noticed no degradation in battery life. I only upgraded to this one because it was free.
Sorry man, maybe you’re right and time will tell. But we’ll just have to wait and see. This phone has a significantly larger battery, too.
If there was no degredation after 5 years and thousands of charge cycles, then you need to rush your phone off to scientists so they can discover the miracle materials inside it 😜
gosh, I love my Fairphone.
Fairphone 4 with weekly android 13 updates here! ( lineageos )
Oh dang that’s neato!
Me too!
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First and foremost, don’t feel pressured to get a new hand tablet with a ten-lense DSLR stapled to the front every single year.
I know Straits only used a picture of an iPhone to get more clicks, but Apple is the least of the offenders when it comes to this. iOS 17 runs on phones released six years ago (including the last iPod touch!), and security updates go a couple years further back than that. I wish Android phones could guarantee that kind of lifespan.
Battery replacement sucks on every smartphone except for obscure modular phones that suddenly lose support or the company goes out of business. But the newest iPhone actually makes it easier to replace the battery (read: still sucks a bit). So, while you have to jump through hoops, you can replace the battery on every smartphone (usually through official channels, but also by other means if needed).
What needs to happen is the masses need to be taught that it’s okay to keep your phone for a few years. Phones need to regarded like cars. Drive it until you can’t, THEN get a new car. And when you do, consider a newer used car. Once that becomes commonplace, then companies will be forced to tone down their release schedules.
This isn’t talked about enough. Apple at least for now support more older models than most if not all androids. The key is not to buy into the marketing. Phones today are good enough and mature enough to not need to be at the bleeding edge every other year. Just get a new case, new wallpaper and swap the battery before deciding a new phone.
Honestly if you care about camera improvements, get a second hand semi decent mirrorless or point and shoot camera. Way more fun. And easy replaceable battery and storage.
that’s why Apple forces replacement parts to be paired with the original device, making impossible for repair shops to scrap and reuse parts of broken iPhones to repair others.
https://www.ifixit.com/News/82493/we-are-retroactively-dropping-the-iphones-repairability-score-en
Agree with all of this, however there isn’t any need to tone down release schedules. There being a new product doesn’t force you to buy it, however it does mean that when you do come to buy it there is a fresh model available. For example imagine if they adopt a 3 year release cycle and you break your phone on year 2.9, now you’re forced to buy a model with a 3 year out of date feature that will itself be obsolete faster, especially since a new model is round the corner. This isn’t the best system. Better the phone companies keep making the latest tech available, so when you do need to buy you can get the phone with the longest life ahead of it.
