Here is an article that paints a more nuanced picture and doesn’t call every MP an idiot.
Not blaming you for posting, OP. Just wanted to offer a take with more depth than “Nazis bad”
Everyone knows Nazis are bad. This situation is more complex than that.
I don’t really think it is. That article you linked is holocaust revisionism and I think you should really rethink how much grey area you think there is in this situation.
He fought for Nazi Germany who murdered 11 million Slavs, 4 million of those being Ukrainians who he supposedly was fighting for. Hunka is a betrayer. A willing participant in genocide.
I swear to you that I believe the Holocaust happened.
I’m trying to say that one man, who was 18 years old, in 1943, living in Ukraine (which was part of the Soviet Union at the time), might have had limited options in what he did for a living.
And if he didn’t want to his people to be a part of the Soviet Union then he could have ended up on a unit that was working against the Soviet Union. I’m not saying that was right or wrong. I’m just saying it’s more complicated than “this guy was a Nazi” and the whole government of Canada is full of idiots.
You should say it was wrong. This man was a willing collaborator with the genocide of his own people, and other peoples as well. It really shouldn’t be hard to say it was wrong.
[edit] I feel I should say that my intention was not to accuse you of holocaust revisionism. But the Politico article is and I suggest you look at it with a more critical eye.
PPS: Nazi apologists admit genocide is bad challenge: impossible.
As opposed to siding with the other side that had just also killed roughly 4 million Ukranians before the war started, and also committed many atrocities against the Ukranian people (which contiued to happen as the Soviets retook Ukraine). I’m not saying that joining the Waffen-SS to fight the Soviets is just (and I’m also making the assumption that no other war crimes were committed, as so far, there is no evidence Hunka was involved in any war crimes) but living in a time where he can’t exactly Google the death counts the Nazis and Soviets, and having experienced the Soviet rigime’s brutality, its not clear cut. Given the information currently available, its entirely possible a lot of his town or family were killed in the Holodomor and he joined believing fewer would be killed under Nazi rule. Given the death counts under Stalin’s rigime, its not a strange thought, esspecially after living through it, and not yet spending much time under Nazi rule. It doesn’t even have to be that he thought the Nazis were less dangerous to be a reasonable choice. For example, this was already late in the war, so if he felt confident that the Allies would win, he could have justified fighting hoping that neither the Soviets nor the Nazis would end the war in control of Ukraine. I’m not saying any of these is the case, but until we have some evidence that it isn’t one of these, its far more grey.
To be clear, I don’t think working with the Nazi army is a good thing, the Nazi rigime was obviously worse, but given the information he would have had access to at the time and the still-unclear background, theres no evidence he agreed with any of the Nazi beleifs or actions (other than fighting the Soviets). Until we find something more substantial, its not clear if he was/is the Nazi (ideologically) he is currently being portrayed as, or just someone who feared continued Soviet genocide of his people. We should not assume he is guilty while there is still room for uncertainty. On the other hand, if more substantial information about his motive comes out, or evidence that he was involved in any of the Division’s war crime’s against the Polish people, than I have no issue with leaving him to rot in prison for the rest of his life, but we should be sure that he was involved in the Nazi attrocities rather than just trying to protect his country from Soviet atrocities.
Fighting on the Axis side wasn’t bad; USSR committed genocide, we had interment camps, etc
The engagement in war crimes and in genocide is bad
This person may have engaged in them and that is bad, the same as celebrating a Vietnam vet isn’t bad but celebrating a Vietnam Vet that raped his way through a village is bad
The attempts to make it black and white are a disservice and shows we’ve forgotten the lessons of WW2 where we punished the Nazis but not the Wehrmarcht
And your further comment down seems that you aren’t able to understand this. There isn’t a good side and bad side; there are good people and bad people. The side they are on is largely based on their birth; considering the USSR’s genocide was against Ukrainians they would be more likely to not take that side
This article kind of sucks.
Here is an article that paints a more nuanced picture and doesn’t call every MP an idiot.
Not blaming you for posting, OP. Just wanted to offer a take with more depth than “Nazis bad” Everyone knows Nazis are bad. This situation is more complex than that.
I don’t really think it is. That article you linked is holocaust revisionism and I think you should really rethink how much grey area you think there is in this situation.
I think Lando read the same article I read from the actual historian, but it’s hard to find it now.
I tried to link the article in my comment. I believe it was also linked on Canada earlier today.
I’m aware of the Politico article, I read it earlier. It’s frankly gross.
I’m not arguing that the Holocaust didn’t happen.
I just linked an article stating that this singular Ukranian man fought on a unit that was found to have committed no war crimes.
Apparently I’m having trouble with links. Lol.
He fought for Nazi Germany who murdered 11 million Slavs, 4 million of those being Ukrainians who he supposedly was fighting for. Hunka is a betrayer. A willing participant in genocide.
I swear to you that I believe the Holocaust happened.
I’m trying to say that one man, who was 18 years old, in 1943, living in Ukraine (which was part of the Soviet Union at the time), might have had limited options in what he did for a living.
And if he didn’t want to his people to be a part of the Soviet Union then he could have ended up on a unit that was working against the Soviet Union. I’m not saying that was right or wrong. I’m just saying it’s more complicated than “this guy was a Nazi” and the whole government of Canada is full of idiots.
You should say it was wrong. This man was a willing collaborator with the genocide of his own people, and other peoples as well. It really shouldn’t be hard to say it was wrong.
[edit] I feel I should say that my intention was not to accuse you of holocaust revisionism. But the Politico article is and I suggest you look at it with a more critical eye.
PPS: Nazi apologists admit genocide is bad challenge: impossible.
As opposed to siding with the other side that had just also killed roughly 4 million Ukranians before the war started, and also committed many atrocities against the Ukranian people (which contiued to happen as the Soviets retook Ukraine). I’m not saying that joining the Waffen-SS to fight the Soviets is just (and I’m also making the assumption that no other war crimes were committed, as so far, there is no evidence Hunka was involved in any war crimes) but living in a time where he can’t exactly Google the death counts the Nazis and Soviets, and having experienced the Soviet rigime’s brutality, its not clear cut. Given the information currently available, its entirely possible a lot of his town or family were killed in the Holodomor and he joined believing fewer would be killed under Nazi rule. Given the death counts under Stalin’s rigime, its not a strange thought, esspecially after living through it, and not yet spending much time under Nazi rule. It doesn’t even have to be that he thought the Nazis were less dangerous to be a reasonable choice. For example, this was already late in the war, so if he felt confident that the Allies would win, he could have justified fighting hoping that neither the Soviets nor the Nazis would end the war in control of Ukraine. I’m not saying any of these is the case, but until we have some evidence that it isn’t one of these, its far more grey.
To be clear, I don’t think working with the Nazi army is a good thing, the Nazi rigime was obviously worse, but given the information he would have had access to at the time and the still-unclear background, theres no evidence he agreed with any of the Nazi beleifs or actions (other than fighting the Soviets). Until we find something more substantial, its not clear if he was/is the Nazi (ideologically) he is currently being portrayed as, or just someone who feared continued Soviet genocide of his people. We should not assume he is guilty while there is still room for uncertainty. On the other hand, if more substantial information about his motive comes out, or evidence that he was involved in any of the Division’s war crime’s against the Polish people, than I have no issue with leaving him to rot in prison for the rest of his life, but we should be sure that he was involved in the Nazi attrocities rather than just trying to protect his country from Soviet atrocities.
Fighting on the Axis side wasn’t bad; USSR committed genocide, we had interment camps, etc
The engagement in war crimes and in genocide is bad
This person may have engaged in them and that is bad, the same as celebrating a Vietnam vet isn’t bad but celebrating a Vietnam Vet that raped his way through a village is bad
The attempts to make it black and white are a disservice and shows we’ve forgotten the lessons of WW2 where we punished the Nazis but not the Wehrmarcht
And your further comment down seems that you aren’t able to understand this. There isn’t a good side and bad side; there are good people and bad people. The side they are on is largely based on their birth; considering the USSR’s genocide was against Ukrainians they would be more likely to not take that side