• BraveSirZaphod@kbin.social
      link
      fedilink
      arrow-up
      12
      arrow-down
      2
      ·
      1 year ago

      I know you don’t care about evidence, but for anyone reading who does, here’s a study from Helsinki.

      https://ideas.repec.org/p/fer/wpaper/146.html

      We study the city-wide effects of new, centrally-located market-rate housing supply using geo-coded total population register data from the Helsinki Metropolitan Area. The supply of new market rate units triggers moving chains that quickly reach middle- and low-income neighborhoods and individuals. Thus, new market-rate construction loosens the housing market in middle- and low-income areas even in the short run. Market-rate supply is likely to improve affordability outside the sub-markets where new construction occurs and to benefit low-income people.

      Turns out there may be a meaningful difference between randomly cutting taxes from businesses and building a bunch of new housing.

        • Lexi Sneptaur@pawb.social
          link
          fedilink
          English
          arrow-up
          7
          arrow-down
          1
          ·
          1 year ago

          Seattleite here. We also focused on supply side housing issues. We passed a ballot initiative last year that allows the city to establish its own housing developer which will compete with capital to build public housing.

          It’s a supply side issue AND a capitalist greed issue. Don’t listen to this person.

          • PeleSpirit@lemmy.world
            link
            fedilink
            English
            arrow-up
            4
            arrow-down
            1
            ·
            1 year ago

            Did they also take away the ability to buy your way out of providing affordable housing?

            • Lexi Sneptaur@pawb.social
              link
              fedilink
              English
              arrow-up
              1
              ·
              1 year ago

              I don’t know, I’m not on the city council so I don’t have all the details. I would hope they do approach that issue though if they haven’t already

              • PeleSpirit@lemmy.world
                link
                fedilink
                English
                arrow-up
                1
                arrow-down
                2
                ·
                1 year ago

                We passed a ballot initiative last year that allows the city to establish its own housing developer which will compete with capital to build public housing.

                Okay, then how is this going? We have our own developer, have we bought properties to convert into affordable housing?

                Also, what shouldn’t they believe about my posts?

                • Lexi Sneptaur@pawb.social
                  link
                  fedilink
                  English
                  arrow-up
                  1
                  ·
                  1 year ago

                  I didn’t say “don’t believe this person” I said “don’t listen to them” meaning I think your stance doesn’t fully reflect reality with regards to this topic. I don’t think you’re a liar, I just think you shouldn’t be the only voice in the thread speaking for Seattle when I have an opinion to share too. Sorry if my words were offensive; it was meant to be dismissive but not offensive.

                  You can find out directly how things are going, here: https://www.seattle.gov/neighborhoods/public-participation/boards-and-commissions/seattle-social-housing-public-development-authority-board

                  Looks like the board meets at the Capitol Hill library branch. Also I was wrong about how long ago the vote was, it was in February 2023. I’m a bit time blind so I kinda suck at that, sorry 😅

                  It seems like they are still setting up shop and laying the groundwork to get things done. The worst thing about government in my opinion is how damn slow everything moves.

                  • PeleSpirit@lemmy.world
                    link
                    fedilink
                    English
                    arrow-up
                    2
                    arrow-down
                    1
                    ·
                    1 year ago

                    it was meant to be dismissive but not offensive.

                    That’s hilarious.

                    The worst thing about government in my opinion is how damn slow everything moves.

                    Yeah, the developers aren’t slows af, lol

        • Bipta@kbin.social
          link
          fedilink
          arrow-up
          3
          arrow-down
          1
          ·
          edit-2
          1 year ago

          The paper came out before that investigation was opened, so unless the paper is wrong, you’re probably wrong.

          • PeleSpirit@lemmy.world
            link
            fedilink
            English
            arrow-up
            4
            arrow-down
            2
            ·
            1 year ago

            On Helsinki? An old world town that has way different living standards and free healthcare?

    • los_chill@programming.dev
      link
      fedilink
      English
      arrow-up
      8
      arrow-down
      1
      ·
      1 year ago

      I’m in agreement. Also in Seattle. The median house price in Seattle is over $800,000. Down a whopping 2%. This means you’d have to make over 200k a year to afford your mortgage. How many more apartment units will trickle this down the other 50% or 75% to make it affordable to everyone? People need to be realistic. Bans on for-profit home ownership need to be part of the mix here, not just more supply.

      • PeleSpirit@lemmy.world
        link
        fedilink
        English
        arrow-up
        1
        ·
        1 year ago

        I could see a private ownership of an actual person being allowed 2 homes in Seattle. Corporations and any lateral, upwards, or subsidiary companies attached to the same board can only own up to 5 units or something for airbnb type situations. Anything over that, they have to register as a hotel and follow hotel rules.

        China seems to be having some of their own real estate issues and are maybe pulling out of the US, some of our rent decreases might be because of that too. A little of it might take care of itself? Just a guess, but I hope we continue to look at everything. No one can afford to live in Seattle doing the low level jobs, so stop complaining about the lack of workers you shitty person at the grocery checkout. We were becoming San Francisco and I don’t think anyone wants that.

        • Kecessa@sh.itjust.works
          link
          fedilink
          arrow-up
          2
          ·
          1 year ago

          I’ve got similar ideas!

          One to four units can only be privately owned, 5 to 8 units can only be owned by a registered company, more than that must be run as a non profit (ideally a state corporation).

          People are only allowed to own one property in a 50km radius (meaning that if you own a 4 unit you pretty much have to live in it unless you live in the next city over).

          • PeleSpirit@lemmy.world
            link
            fedilink
            English
            arrow-up
            1
            ·
            1 year ago

            I’m not sure how you would do the non-profit since a lot of corporations already own high rises with “luxury” apartments. Are you saying they would be grandfathered in?

              • PeleSpirit@lemmy.world
                link
                fedilink
                English
                arrow-up
                1
                ·
                1 year ago

                I don’t think I agree. All those real estate greeds are going to switch to non-profits then. There are ways to abuse that system and they surely would.

                • Kecessa@sh.itjust.works
                  link
                  fedilink
                  arrow-up
                  1
                  ·
                  edit-2
                  1 year ago

                  Well they can, it just means that the building management needs to show that all the money they get gets reinvested in the building or put aside for repairs. Non profits are much easier to investigate than private companies because they need to be able to justify everything they spend so they don’t overcharge. If it’s a state corporation? Even better, profits get sent to the government coffers to spend on services and you’re sure that the charges are lowered the next year. That’s how our health protection works for anything related to roads where I live and there’s a pretty good reason why it’s the province where it’s the cheapest to insure a vehicle!

                  • PeleSpirit@lemmy.world
                    link
                    fedilink
                    English
                    arrow-up
                    1
                    ·
                    1 year ago

                    they need to be able to justify everything they spend so they don’t overcharge.

                    I don’t think you’ve worked with non-profits before. Justify to the government or to the board? I’ve only worked with a couple and the salary of the people running it can be very high, look at Goodwill. Non-profits are just quiet enough and loose enough for them to take advantage. That’s a nope on my side.

      • Kecessa@sh.itjust.works
        link
        fedilink
        arrow-up
        1
        ·
        1 year ago

        Not everyone wants to own, even when housing was affordable there was still a bit more than 30% renting.

        At the point we’re at there’s more competition to own because renting is so expensive that it’s way more logical to purchase, flood the rental market to crash prices there and people won’t buy at a ridiculous price, they’ll simply rent instead, lowering pressure in the whole market.

        It’s one of the many ways to lower prices!

    • Habahnow@sh.itjust.works
      link
      fedilink
      arrow-up
      3
      ·
      1 year ago

      Disagree with what you’re saying though there is some truth in what you’re saying: We’re low on supply on housing in major business areas, because we haven’t kept up with house manufacturing for like 20+ years. If we just allow developers to build what they like, yeah they’ll mainly aim for luxury apartments/condos which only the rich will be able to afford. There will be strong resistance from the landlords to drop the property/rent value since the property is constructed to be more luxurious, so we’d need a ton of those luxury homes before medium and low income homes get built or become available (through price drops). That’s why, governments need to require some low income/median income offered units to help house more people with these new units until supply catches up or some other way to ensure that lower income people (non-rich) are able to afford homes.

      Overall, making more homes is the ultimate solution to our low supply problem, we can argue of better ways to make more homes, get more average/median people housed, and decrease living costs, while we make new homes. Otherwise, we’ll be here arguing about what to do, and letting the problem continue to fester instead of refining imperfect solutions.

      • PeleSpirit@lemmy.world
        link
        fedilink
        English
        arrow-up
        2
        arrow-down
        1
        ·
        1 year ago

        That’s why, governments need to require some low income/median income offered units to help house more people with these new units until supply catches up or some other way to ensure that lower income people (non-rich) are able to afford homes.

        But they don’t, they want to make money too. Tell me specifically how the developers and “luxury” home creators are trying to make that happen. I’ll give you a hint, they’re not which is why trickle down housing TM doesn’t work. Developers are great at getting the laws to work in their favor by using cash.

        First, take care of corporations buying apartment buildings and homes for short term rentals, then we can talk about supply.