And the sound engineer people (not sure if that’s their official title) are* suuuuper condescending about it. “Well it’s your fault for not having a professional setup mixed the same as a theater.”
Edit:
*Fixed a typo.
Thanks for the replies people, I’m learning a lot! I think another commenter referenced the same article I’m half-remembering (as you do) where some professional audio people commented on this issue. They said movies are designed for the theater and nothing else with no intention/interest in fixing it. IIRC (and I probably don’t) this is likely due to directors or studios not wanting to pay for a home version or having a specific vision they would rather not compromise. Even though the effect of not compromising is…well, the posted comic.
Former sound engineer here. Yes, that’s the correct title, but no, that’s not our doing (not mine at least). I want as many people as possible to reasonably be able to enjoy my output, regardless whether they have a 40000$ home cinema, or if they’re on a cheap TV.
I know that some directors (Christopher Nolan) tend to want to produce “best” quality at the expense of those who don’t care. See Tenet as an example.
If you can have sound separated into different channels based on what their purpose is, I don’t see why they can’t just have a software solution that allows you to raise the volume of dialogue separately from everything else.
Like in video games, you can control volume for dialogue, music, sound effects, etc all individually.
I love this idea. I don’t want it balanced or perfect for my system, I literally just want everything that isn’t speech to be quieter, even if the voice is behind us or the explosion is front and center. That’s it.
That’s because it has to use some sort of impercise method to identify speech vs everything else, since speech is mixed in with the rest of the audio.
If speech had a dedicated channel it wouldn’t be mixed in with everything else and you wouldn’t need to use any tricks to adjust it independently.
EDIT: need more coffee, I misread the comment talking about a software solution as suggesting just putting speech in a dedicated channel. Whoops. This comment is useless.
Sound engineers are the nicest of people in the audio world ime. Always ready to explain to my dumb ass complex math that makes sound work, and I love them for it.
The people you’re thinking about go by “audiophiles” most commonly and are the coffee people of the tech world: nothing is ever good enough and they’ll sneer at you for not knowing that.
What do you mean, you don’t have a $1400 wooden volume knob to help suppress harmonics? Coupled with a True DC source with microvolt ripple for your final stages It’s like lifting a veil from the sound stage!
Edit: No, seriously, there are people like that.
This company used to sell a $400 wooden knob some 15 years ago. They still sell a lot of stuff like that for the True Audiophile.
I should sell a full line of audiophile goods, including door knobs, jackets, and wallets. The key is in the resonant frequency of our products, they will really lift the veil and not hamper the sound waves traveling through the room, but instead enhance them with constructive interference.
Most digital signals carry extra data for error correction even if there is issues with the electrical signal due to distance and EM interference.
Cable issues like what you’re talking about should only be happening on cables carrying analog signal, and that should be solvable with basic, dirt cheap shielding in the cable itself.
Yeah, like it needs to be super long. That’s why you see it more in Ethernet cables and why they have better shielding. With HDMI it’s not as big of a deal because they’re so short.
Cables can make a difference. If you’re running HDMI 2.1 to get full HDR video and uncompressed HD 5.1 or 7.1 audio, then you should use a certified cable because it’s a lot of information moving across a cable very quickly. I’ve tried cheap Amazon cables before and they fail. They get too hot and the devices lose handshake and shut off or throw errors. But once you have a cable that’s rated and certified for your intended use, it’s not going to get much better.
cables can absolutely make a difference, but it’s still easy to get a quality cable without paying for the extra cost of someone having marketed it as “audiophile” gear. Keep in mind the commenter was talking about switches and servers
99% of the time, the cause is trying to output a 5.1 signal into a Stereo setup (Like your TV speakers). A 5.1 signal is 5 speakers and 1 subwoofer. The speakers are front left and right, rear left and right and - the important bit - the centre channel. The centre channel tends to be where all of the dialogue comes from, while everything else comes from the other speakers. But what happens if you don’t have 5 speakers? What if you only have 2? You can’t ignore that audio so you’ve got to mush it together somehow and now you’ve got dialogue and explosions coming out of the same speakers with mixed results.
It’s not about not having a professional setup mixed the same as a theatre, it’s usually about a setting somewhere that’s incorrect. If you’re only using your TV’s speakers, there’s a good chance something somewhere is trying to give it a surround sound signal and it’s trying to downmix that to stereo. Usually you can fix it by adjusting a setting somewhere, either the TV itself or whatever app/box is sending the TV the signal as most sources do actually come with a stereo mix.
However, a better way of solving it is getting yourself a soundbar. It doesn’t have to be an expensive one at all, even the cheaper soundbars will sound better than your TV ever will and they’ll at least have a 3.1 signal that’ll separate out the sound effects/music from the dialogue because usually that dialogue goes through the centre channel which you now have. You can also usually adjust the volume of that channel independently.
Note that nobody would suggest that a cheap soundbar is anything close to a “professional setup”. Most audio folk would turn their nose up at the idea of using a soundbar over a full surround system but you know what, they’re pretty “good enough” for most folk and if you care about media consumption, it’s a nice improvement.
i was once present to recording of some cheap radio advertisement, and the last step in the mixing process was that the guy burned the cd and plugged it in into 20 usd cd player to hear what it will sound like to the intended audience.
so not every professional has necessarily be an obnoxious asshole.
Yea it’s better for media to have a high “dynamic range” (as in the comic). But for most consumers it’s bad. My solution is to use a “compressor”, a audio filter that practically averages loudness.
https://www.thewindowsclub.com/compressor-tool-in-vlc
Funny enough shitty laptop speakers are better for watching these kinds of movies.
Most of the time sound engineers also make a stereo mix, with significantly less dynamic range.
Blame your TV/computer/whatever-screen for going technically a multichannel surround system could be plugged into me at any moment, I will tell the streaming-service/Blu-ray/DVD/media-file to feed me that sound track! Switching to the stereo track makes a big difference, but yeah, for some reason the surround track becomes the default option.
Re-recording mixer would be more accurate. Engineer is more a music thing I think. Regardless, designer Mark Mangini knows this is an issue for example due to theater mixes being a priority over a basic stereo mix. This is an issue in action films (I can’t imagine a drama would have this huge an issue, less dynamics) and as long as the mixers have to prioritize the Atmos theater mixes n shit and the studio doesn’t want to pay for a great home stereo mix, the dynamics issue will continue
I recall reading something on Reddit or medium about an audio engineer who demanded to talk with the manager because the sound was “wrong”. Apparently the theater had a different speaker setup than she had designed the movie for.
I can’t find the link now though. Is there a name for that? Like baader-meinhoff but in reverse?
And the sound engineer people (not sure if that’s their official title) are* suuuuper condescending about it. “Well it’s your fault for not having a professional setup mixed the same as a theater.”
Edit: *Fixed a typo.
Thanks for the replies people, I’m learning a lot! I think another commenter referenced the same article I’m half-remembering (as you do) where some professional audio people commented on this issue. They said movies are designed for the theater and nothing else with no intention/interest in fixing it. IIRC (and I probably don’t) this is likely due to directors or studios not wanting to pay for a home version or having a specific vision they would rather not compromise. Even though the effect of not compromising is…well, the posted comic.
Former sound engineer here. Yes, that’s the correct title, but no, that’s not our doing (not mine at least). I want as many people as possible to reasonably be able to enjoy my output, regardless whether they have a 40000$ home cinema, or if they’re on a cheap TV.
I know that some directors (Christopher Nolan) tend to want to produce “best” quality at the expense of those who don’t care. See Tenet as an example.
Hey at least with Nolan movies, it really doesn’t matter what they’re saying
Obligatory:
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=s2FXfFeRtJo
Brilliant
If you can have sound separated into different channels based on what their purpose is, I don’t see why they can’t just have a software solution that allows you to raise the volume of dialogue separately from everything else.
Like in video games, you can control volume for dialogue, music, sound effects, etc all individually.
I love this idea. I don’t want it balanced or perfect for my system, I literally just want everything that isn’t speech to be quieter, even if the voice is behind us or the explosion is front and center. That’s it.
As much as I would love that, its use would be very limited without widespread adaption of software or hardware support.
My Denon home theater amp has a setting for this. It doesn’t work very well, but there’s a minor improvement when it’s set to medium.
That’s because it has to use some sort of impercise method to identify speech vs everything else, since speech is mixed in with the rest of the audio.
If speech had a dedicated channel it wouldn’t be mixed in with everything else and you wouldn’t need to use any tricks to adjust it independently.
EDIT: need more coffee, I misread the comment talking about a software solution as suggesting just putting speech in a dedicated channel. Whoops. This comment is useless.
God I freaking love Tenet. I haven’t watched it in a few months I’ll watch it tonight.
Watch it in reverse.
Sound engineers are the nicest of people in the audio world ime. Always ready to explain to my dumb ass complex math that makes sound work, and I love them for it.
The people you’re thinking about go by “audiophiles” most commonly and are the coffee people of the tech world: nothing is ever good enough and they’ll sneer at you for not knowing that.
What do you mean, your cables aren’t braided from fine gold?
What do you mean, you don’t have a $1400 wooden volume knob to help suppress harmonics? Coupled with a True DC source with microvolt ripple for your final stages It’s like lifting a veil from the sound stage!
Edit: No, seriously, there are people like that. This company used to sell a $400 wooden knob some 15 years ago. They still sell a lot of stuff like that for the True Audiophile.
http://www.audio-consulting.ch/?Products
(Don’t know how many veils a soundstage can actually have, but apparently, it’s a lot).
I remember the wooden knob. It’s not even the most outrageous item that was available.
Audiophile servers and Audiophile Switches are the stupidest.
The digital signal will be exactly the same no matter what, you can’t make it cleaner than either a 1 or a 0.
I should sell a full line of audiophile goods, including door knobs, jackets, and wallets. The key is in the resonant frequency of our products, they will really lift the veil and not hamper the sound waves traveling through the room, but instead enhance them with constructive interference.
There is still some stuff to worry about but that’s if the cables are long. I don’t think you’re going to get problems from the TV to the speaker.
Most digital signals carry extra data for error correction even if there is issues with the electrical signal due to distance and EM interference.
Cable issues like what you’re talking about should only be happening on cables carrying analog signal, and that should be solvable with basic, dirt cheap shielding in the cable itself.
Yeah, like it needs to be super long. That’s why you see it more in Ethernet cables and why they have better shielding. With HDMI it’s not as big of a deal because they’re so short.
Cables can make a difference. If you’re running HDMI 2.1 to get full HDR video and uncompressed HD 5.1 or 7.1 audio, then you should use a certified cable because it’s a lot of information moving across a cable very quickly. I’ve tried cheap Amazon cables before and they fail. They get too hot and the devices lose handshake and shut off or throw errors. But once you have a cable that’s rated and certified for your intended use, it’s not going to get much better.
cables can absolutely make a difference, but it’s still easy to get a quality cable without paying for the extra cost of someone having marketed it as “audiophile” gear. Keep in mind the commenter was talking about switches and servers
And expensive little feet to set your $4000 cables on so they don’t touch the ground.
99% of the time, the cause is trying to output a 5.1 signal into a Stereo setup (Like your TV speakers). A 5.1 signal is 5 speakers and 1 subwoofer. The speakers are front left and right, rear left and right and - the important bit - the centre channel. The centre channel tends to be where all of the dialogue comes from, while everything else comes from the other speakers. But what happens if you don’t have 5 speakers? What if you only have 2? You can’t ignore that audio so you’ve got to mush it together somehow and now you’ve got dialogue and explosions coming out of the same speakers with mixed results.
It’s not about not having a professional setup mixed the same as a theatre, it’s usually about a setting somewhere that’s incorrect. If you’re only using your TV’s speakers, there’s a good chance something somewhere is trying to give it a surround sound signal and it’s trying to downmix that to stereo. Usually you can fix it by adjusting a setting somewhere, either the TV itself or whatever app/box is sending the TV the signal as most sources do actually come with a stereo mix.
However, a better way of solving it is getting yourself a soundbar. It doesn’t have to be an expensive one at all, even the cheaper soundbars will sound better than your TV ever will and they’ll at least have a 3.1 signal that’ll separate out the sound effects/music from the dialogue because usually that dialogue goes through the centre channel which you now have. You can also usually adjust the volume of that channel independently.
Note that nobody would suggest that a cheap soundbar is anything close to a “professional setup”. Most audio folk would turn their nose up at the idea of using a soundbar over a full surround system but you know what, they’re pretty “good enough” for most folk and if you care about media consumption, it’s a nice improvement.
I have that setup
The theater is also too imbalanced and too loud
Screw how they do it in the theatre. Watching Dune gave me a migraine for the rest of the day thanks to the sound.
Dune gave me an erection for the rest of the day because of the sound.
Zendaya looking over her shoulder as a woman screams
Tibetan throat gurgling intensifies
I’m with you
Get out and vote, people!
i was once present to recording of some cheap radio advertisement, and the last step in the mixing process was that the guy burned the cd and plugged it in into 20 usd cd player to hear what it will sound like to the intended audience.
so not every professional has necessarily be an obnoxious asshole.
Yea it’s better for media to have a high “dynamic range” (as in the comic). But for most consumers it’s bad. My solution is to use a “compressor”, a audio filter that practically averages loudness. https://www.thewindowsclub.com/compressor-tool-in-vlc
Funny enough shitty laptop speakers are better for watching these kinds of movies.
See also: loudness wars
If you’re not on a computer, most TVs come with a “nighttime” mode which is essentially a compressor and works in the daytime just as well.
Most of the time sound engineers also make a stereo mix, with significantly less dynamic range.
Blame your TV/computer/whatever-screen for going technically a multichannel surround system could be plugged into me at any moment, I will tell the streaming-service/Blu-ray/DVD/media-file to feed me that sound track! Switching to the stereo track makes a big difference, but yeah, for some reason the surround track becomes the default option.
Re-recording mixer would be more accurate. Engineer is more a music thing I think. Regardless, designer Mark Mangini knows this is an issue for example due to theater mixes being a priority over a basic stereo mix. This is an issue in action films (I can’t imagine a drama would have this huge an issue, less dynamics) and as long as the mixers have to prioritize the Atmos theater mixes n shit and the studio doesn’t want to pay for a great home stereo mix, the dynamics issue will continue
I recall reading something on Reddit or medium about an audio engineer who demanded to talk with the manager because the sound was “wrong”. Apparently the theater had a different speaker setup than she had designed the movie for.
I can’t find the link now though. Is there a name for that? Like baader-meinhoff but in reverse?
Meinhoff-Baader.