Yeah, I’m gonna take the peer reviewed studies results that show that ketamine is quite effective with relieving drug resistant depression over this post of yours…
Yeah but I don’t like when peoole see one study and then claim that it’s conclusive. The consensus is that there may there might be something to it being useful for depression, and it should be studied further. No high confidence.
It is useful in creating a sense of disassociation of self - the same thing that meditation does. It even affects the same regions of the brain as meditation. When used carefully, with therapeutic intent, it can be an effective treatment for depression.
Recreational use is sketchy, definitely. But the science is there for using it therapeutically.
I have no dog in this fight, but any studies done on brain chemistry and psychological effects need to be taken with a grain of salt. We know so little about the brain and consciousness that most of the stuff we’re trying and doing are educated guesses.
Ketamine is garbage at everything besides temporarily lobotomizing people. It works for it’s many uses because it makes the user stupid. It’s often given to suicidal people, not because it’s a miracle drug, but because it incapacitates them in a safe manner.
This quote from you contradicts what you’ve just said.
It doesn’t. I can speak to it’s mode of action without speaking to it’s reason of use or efficacy. It’s highly effective. It’s great at what it’s used for. It also temporarily makes the user stupid and incapacitates them.
It also doesn’t make you stupid, it is a disassociative anesthetic so you lose touch, to varying degrees, of your senses. At high enough doses even your sense of hearing becomes strange and I would bet if my doc gave me more it would fail almost completely. That’s not a place I want to go however.
Despite that, and appearing to be incapable of coordinated movement or speech, the mind is still active. Altered, yes. But active and intact. I am always aware of my partner in the room/bed with me, the dog checking things out, I just choose not to interact with them to continue exploring memories, or alien landscapes, or just turn off my mind, listen to the music, and let the drug work while the most fantastic and surreal images come and go.
I’m here today because of ketamine. Disinformation and pearl clutching threatens to reduce access to it, and could cost lives, speaking only of this one niche use.
I’m not trying to diminish anyone’s experiences with ketamine, or reduce anyone’s access to it, though I do think it’s funny everyone thinks that some asshole on the internet has that ability.
Are you able to stand up when using ketamine? How about run? Could you tell me your personal details such as name/date/address? Could you tell me the time? Could you remember your mother’s phone number? Could you take a bath? Could you safely use a knife? Could you melt into nothingness and lose all sense of self, physicality and emotion?..wait strike that last one. Of course you could.
Now we’re at the point that we all realize dissociation is to become stupid and incapacitated. Anesthitized even?
So you sound like someone with some experience using drugs (particularly those of psychedelic or hallucinatory nature), right?
So you would know that drugs effect everyone differently. Personally, I never abused ketamine, but I have k-holed a handful of times, and my personal experience was that it had a profound effect on me in many ways.
But that’s just my personal experience. Nothing more, nothing less.
Anyway, those who know, know MXE (methoxetamine) was way better for that brief period of time before the supply permanently dried up.
You didn’t though. You used a blanket statement. As evidenced by your use of the word “everything”. Your entire initial comment reads as if it was written in the grip of anti drugs hysteria in the 1950s and shows none of the nuance you’re now trying to claim it does.
You’re also wrong on its mode of action, so you’re not even speaking to that. It doesn’t work by making the user “too stupid to conceptualize their own thoughts or realize where they are physically”.
Yeah, I’m gonna take the peer reviewed studies results that show that ketamine is quite effective with relieving drug resistant depression over this post of yours…
https://med.stanford.edu/news/all-news/2023/10/ketamine.html
Yeah but I don’t like when peoole see one study and then claim that it’s conclusive. The consensus is that there may there might be something to it being useful for depression, and it should be studied further. No high confidence.
It is useful in creating a sense of disassociation of self - the same thing that meditation does. It even affects the same regions of the brain as meditation. When used carefully, with therapeutic intent, it can be an effective treatment for depression.
Recreational use is sketchy, definitely. But the science is there for using it therapeutically.
But your assessment of its efficacy is not contradictory to DontHavePants observation. They didn’t say it wasn’t effective.
I have no dog in this fight, but any studies done on brain chemistry and psychological effects need to be taken with a grain of salt. We know so little about the brain and consciousness that most of the stuff we’re trying and doing are educated guesses.
And random social media text posts need to be taken with a cargo ship’s load worth of salt.
Nothing I said is in any contention with ketamine/depression studies.
This quote from you contradicts what you’ve just said.
It doesn’t. I can speak to it’s mode of action without speaking to it’s reason of use or efficacy. It’s highly effective. It’s great at what it’s used for. It also temporarily makes the user stupid and incapacitates them.
That isn’t it’s mode of action, at all.
It also doesn’t make you stupid, it is a disassociative anesthetic so you lose touch, to varying degrees, of your senses. At high enough doses even your sense of hearing becomes strange and I would bet if my doc gave me more it would fail almost completely. That’s not a place I want to go however.
Despite that, and appearing to be incapable of coordinated movement or speech, the mind is still active. Altered, yes. But active and intact. I am always aware of my partner in the room/bed with me, the dog checking things out, I just choose not to interact with them to continue exploring memories, or alien landscapes, or just turn off my mind, listen to the music, and let the drug work while the most fantastic and surreal images come and go.
I’m here today because of ketamine. Disinformation and pearl clutching threatens to reduce access to it, and could cost lives, speaking only of this one niche use.
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I’m not trying to diminish anyone’s experiences with ketamine, or reduce anyone’s access to it, though I do think it’s funny everyone thinks that some asshole on the internet has that ability.
Are you able to stand up when using ketamine? How about run? Could you tell me your personal details such as name/date/address? Could you tell me the time? Could you remember your mother’s phone number? Could you take a bath? Could you safely use a knife? Could you melt into nothingness and lose all sense of self, physicality and emotion?..wait strike that last one. Of course you could.
Now we’re at the point that we all realize dissociation is to become stupid and incapacitated. Anesthitized even?
I’ve ingested a ton of ketamine myself, so theres no pearl clutching here. I’ll be back tomorrow to continue arguing semantics.
did you use if for medical purposes or fun times?
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So you sound like someone with some experience using drugs (particularly those of psychedelic or hallucinatory nature), right?
So you would know that drugs effect everyone differently. Personally, I never abused ketamine, but I have k-holed a handful of times, and my personal experience was that it had a profound effect on me in many ways.
But that’s just my personal experience. Nothing more, nothing less.
Anyway, those who know, know MXE (methoxetamine) was way better for that brief period of time before the supply permanently dried up.
You’ve never abused ketamine, but you’ve k-holed?
Ummm…?
I wouldn’t consider k-holing abuse personally. A k-hole is a desired effect of the drug for many people.
Ketamine can be addictive though, and I would consider frequent/habitual use to be abuse.
Yeah, that’s not abuse. If I was using it on a regular basis, then it would be abuse. I’ve never, personally, found it to be particularly addictive.
Your personal experiences are your own bud.
That’s literally exactly what I said. Good job.
Again, you’re not actually contradicting Pants, you’re just rewording and massaging their snark.
You didn’t though. You used a blanket statement. As evidenced by your use of the word “everything”. Your entire initial comment reads as if it was written in the grip of anti drugs hysteria in the 1950s and shows none of the nuance you’re now trying to claim it does.
You’re also wrong on its mode of action, so you’re not even speaking to that. It doesn’t work by making the user “too stupid to conceptualize their own thoughts or realize where they are physically”.
He said everything except “temporarily lobotomizing people” which was clearly hyperbole.
He then gave examples where the sedation provided by ketamine can be beneficial.
This guy gets it.
There are so many overly pedantic haters that recently joined Lemmy. Every post now is controversial as fuck judging by the downvoting going on.