I dunno why people insist on the active and present model of God,
It’s pretty obvious that at the most he’s diligently observing the way things are shaking out, like even from textual evidence within the Bible, he was active, but he isn’t now
Way I always took it was by specifically abolishing original sin, Jesus abolished being judged for your associations and family, and instead being judged for your own choices in life.
Basically Christianity tells a narrative of divine salvation going from being a gift for a chosen people provided their maintaining their covenant with their God, to said covenant being abolished, and said salvation now being what people experience from the act of choosing to do good things for yourself and for the folks around you.
From justice being tied to a code of blood feuding to a code of retaliatory law, to a choice you make every day to spread good through your actions.
Which he knew was about to happen and didn’t stop.
Here’s what I don’t get, among many, many other parts of the bible. If he’s omnipotent and omniscient, and we’re all sinners, why not just forgive us? Why allow – no, require – your son to be tortured and killed first? I want someone to explain it to me like I’m in Sunday school in a way that makes more sense than “because the bible is a work of fiction written by superstitious men who were obsessed with blood sacrifice”.
My understanding is that humans have free will, so God didn’t “require” his son to be tortured and killed. We coulda just not tortured and killed Jesus. But also, Jesus was such a cool dude he decided to absorb all of our evilness and die for it. But then God brought Jesus back because duh, he’s omnipotent, he’s not gonna let his son stay dead.
Now I kinda want to ask some hardcore Christians, hey, what woulda happened if the Romans didn’t kill Jesus? Like what if they’d just left him alone and Jesus died at an old age peacefully in his own bed?
Eh, they’d probably say I’m going to Hell for asking questions like that.
So we have a god that knows everything unfair and evil that is happening right now on this planet. He has the power to do anything about it. And yet he doesn’t.
This means god if he does exist is an absolute asshole! He doesn’t care a little bit about us. He maybe watches us and grabs some popcorn: “let’s see how much they fuck up today”.
God is just a scientist. He/She (why gender a god that would be beyond genders?) are just conducting scientific experiments to see if they can make another version of “God.”
See God is just really lonely and wants an equal to talk to.
1 and 2 could still be true even if he was inactive, and it could be that letting us fuck up on our own is the point? Like how much moral value is the right decision if it was made for you by an all powerful hand you couldn’t possibly reject the influence of?
For a choice to be moral, it has to of course result in the moral outcome, but it also has to come from the genuine wish to do the moral thing because you understand why it’s the moral thing and wish to live in that understanding.
So God stepping in and fixing every problem would basically be an act robbing humanity of the ability to act morally.
I think it doesn’t matter if there is or isn’t a god, and that getting bogged down in the debate of it is an act of missing the point entirely.
For example Sodom and Gomorrha. Cities of sinners get wiped to the ground directly by god because sinning is bad. (let’s ignore that I find it difficult to believe that every single person in that city was a sinner)
So basically “don’t sin or God kills you” this is direct action by God.
Or in Egypt. The plagues. This boils down to
“don’t enslave the people of God or god kills your children, food and stuff”
According to the Bible God takes direct control when his believers either disobey him by sinning or get suppressed by others.
So why has he stopped 2000 years ago?
Also the point whether there is or is not a God is important when so many people base their actions on the existence of them.
So God stepping in and fixing every problem
They don’t have to fix every problem, but explain to me why innocent people have to die from illnesses, accidents or natural catastrophes. Why do newborns die? They hadn’t even had a chance to sin.
The world is not fair and a deity that could fix that but doesn’t and also does not interact at all could as well not exist.
Old Testament God is not moral. He’s explicitly described as jealous and quick to anger. And He’s not explicitly described this way but I think it’s pretty clear from His deeds: He is evil. Kills for sport. Or out of rash anger.
Because shit just happens sometimes? It sounds more like you’re just upset that the just world hypothesis doesn’t hold up and that it’s not required to for God to exist or not, and again, I state that to have a fit about if he does or not is just missing the entire point.
And also, those people basing their shit actions of “because God said so” would be doing it based on something else, so again, missing the entire point. You’re getting mad about an argument nobody cares about except for getting a kick out of watching you charge the big red scarf instead of tackling the actual issue, the shitty actions, the choice someone makes to knowingly do things that hurt other people.
I get upset when smb. claims that everything is the lords intent and it’s their destiny. This basically is saying like they don’t have free will. Everything they do is predefined.
Religion is a tool to control masses. And as such it has been used to do the worst things in history. Therefore religion should not exist. My opinion.
I mean when the Lord’s intent is that we learn how to choose good for ourselves for no reason but because we recognize its inherent value as the act of choosing good, it kinda does shake out that most if not all random moments of shit and horror and people being able to do horrible things are by intent. Sure doesn’t make such an observer happy, but it would be going according to their overall plan so long as the long arc continues to bend towards justice.
Free will isn’t just compatible with a Creator’s intent, the current state of the world would suggest that for a hypothetical creator of us, it was the entire point.
Organized religion CAN be a tool of mass control, but when Marx called it the opiate of the masses, he was speaking on how it is the only reprieve the working class has from the crush of the capitalist grind.
Spirituality has been an important component of movements of labor solidarity and liberation as much as it’s been a tool of oppression and atrocity, because it’s a tool, it does what the wielder wants it to.
Again we’re at the point where we’re talking about parts of it that aren’t the point though. The point is to be a community that encourages folks to be good to each other, and then individually to understand the value of projecting goodness to the world around you, if you get that without belief, right on man, but for some folks the experience is something that warrants a spiritual connection, and we shouldn’t treat them as less than because that’s what gets them to the food bank or the library volunteer line.
I dunno why people insist on the active and present model of God,
It’s pretty obvious that at the most he’s diligently observing the way things are shaking out, like even from textual evidence within the Bible, he was active, but he isn’t now
We killed his kid, so he’s giving us the silent treatment.
The Christian God is a narcissistic spoiled brat.
Way I always took it was by specifically abolishing original sin, Jesus abolished being judged for your associations and family, and instead being judged for your own choices in life.
Basically Christianity tells a narrative of divine salvation going from being a gift for a chosen people provided their maintaining their covenant with their God, to said covenant being abolished, and said salvation now being what people experience from the act of choosing to do good things for yourself and for the folks around you.
From justice being tied to a code of blood feuding to a code of retaliatory law, to a choice you make every day to spread good through your actions.
Which he knew was about to happen and didn’t stop.
Here’s what I don’t get, among many, many other parts of the bible. If he’s omnipotent and omniscient, and we’re all sinners, why not just forgive us? Why allow – no, require – your son to be tortured and killed first? I want someone to explain it to me like I’m in Sunday school in a way that makes more sense than “because the bible is a work of fiction written by superstitious men who were obsessed with blood sacrifice”.
I answered the question. God is a narcissistic, sociopathic, spoiled brat. Any time he doesn’t get his way, he throws a tantrum.
Dude claims to have given us free will, but will punish us if we actually use it.
Really, the biblical devil is a better God. Just look at Job.
My understanding is that humans have free will, so God didn’t “require” his son to be tortured and killed. We coulda just not tortured and killed Jesus. But also, Jesus was such a cool dude he decided to absorb all of our evilness and die for it. But then God brought Jesus back because duh, he’s omnipotent, he’s not gonna let his son stay dead.
Now I kinda want to ask some hardcore Christians, hey, what woulda happened if the Romans didn’t kill Jesus? Like what if they’d just left him alone and Jesus died at an old age peacefully in his own bed?
Eh, they’d probably say I’m going to Hell for asking questions like that.
Eh, (old testament events aside) I’d probably do the same thing in his position lol
Ok Christianity claims the following to be true:
God is allmighty
God is eternal (immortal)
God is allknowing
So we have a god that knows everything unfair and evil that is happening right now on this planet. He has the power to do anything about it. And yet he doesn’t.
This means god if he does exist is an absolute asshole! He doesn’t care a little bit about us. He maybe watches us and grabs some popcorn: “let’s see how much they fuck up today”.
I think there is no god.
God is just a scientist. He/She (why gender a god that would be beyond genders?) are just conducting scientific experiments to see if they can make another version of “God.”
See God is just really lonely and wants an equal to talk to.
Someone’s been watching Kurzegesagt’s vid on The Egg haven’t they?
Well, I read the short story before, so I’m guessing it’s the same as the video.
I heard about the idea first from reading Memnoch The Devil by Anne Rice. It was one of the Interview With The Vampire books.
1 and 2 could still be true even if he was inactive, and it could be that letting us fuck up on our own is the point? Like how much moral value is the right decision if it was made for you by an all powerful hand you couldn’t possibly reject the influence of?
For a choice to be moral, it has to of course result in the moral outcome, but it also has to come from the genuine wish to do the moral thing because you understand why it’s the moral thing and wish to live in that understanding.
So God stepping in and fixing every problem would basically be an act robbing humanity of the ability to act morally.
I think it doesn’t matter if there is or isn’t a god, and that getting bogged down in the debate of it is an act of missing the point entirely.
Ok how does the Bible tell you about moral?
For example Sodom and Gomorrha. Cities of sinners get wiped to the ground directly by god because sinning is bad. (let’s ignore that I find it difficult to believe that every single person in that city was a sinner)
So basically “don’t sin or God kills you” this is direct action by God.
Or in Egypt. The plagues. This boils down to “don’t enslave the people of God or god kills your children, food and stuff”
According to the Bible God takes direct control when his believers either disobey him by sinning or get suppressed by others.
So why has he stopped 2000 years ago?
Also the point whether there is or is not a God is important when so many people base their actions on the existence of them.
They don’t have to fix every problem, but explain to me why innocent people have to die from illnesses, accidents or natural catastrophes. Why do newborns die? They hadn’t even had a chance to sin.
The world is not fair and a deity that could fix that but doesn’t and also does not interact at all could as well not exist.
Old Testament God is not moral. He’s explicitly described as jealous and quick to anger. And He’s not explicitly described this way but I think it’s pretty clear from His deeds: He is evil. Kills for sport. Or out of rash anger.
God is not a good dude. His son was ok though.
Because shit just happens sometimes? It sounds more like you’re just upset that the just world hypothesis doesn’t hold up and that it’s not required to for God to exist or not, and again, I state that to have a fit about if he does or not is just missing the entire point.
And also, those people basing their shit actions of “because God said so” would be doing it based on something else, so again, missing the entire point. You’re getting mad about an argument nobody cares about except for getting a kick out of watching you charge the big red scarf instead of tackling the actual issue, the shitty actions, the choice someone makes to knowingly do things that hurt other people.
I get upset when smb. claims that everything is the lords intent and it’s their destiny. This basically is saying like they don’t have free will. Everything they do is predefined.
Religion is a tool to control masses. And as such it has been used to do the worst things in history. Therefore religion should not exist. My opinion.
I mean when the Lord’s intent is that we learn how to choose good for ourselves for no reason but because we recognize its inherent value as the act of choosing good, it kinda does shake out that most if not all random moments of shit and horror and people being able to do horrible things are by intent. Sure doesn’t make such an observer happy, but it would be going according to their overall plan so long as the long arc continues to bend towards justice.
Free will isn’t just compatible with a Creator’s intent, the current state of the world would suggest that for a hypothetical creator of us, it was the entire point.
Organized religion CAN be a tool of mass control, but when Marx called it the opiate of the masses, he was speaking on how it is the only reprieve the working class has from the crush of the capitalist grind.
Spirituality has been an important component of movements of labor solidarity and liberation as much as it’s been a tool of oppression and atrocity, because it’s a tool, it does what the wielder wants it to.
Again we’re at the point where we’re talking about parts of it that aren’t the point though. The point is to be a community that encourages folks to be good to each other, and then individually to understand the value of projecting goodness to the world around you, if you get that without belief, right on man, but for some folks the experience is something that warrants a spiritual connection, and we shouldn’t treat them as less than because that’s what gets them to the food bank or the library volunteer line.