I’m voting green because if democracy is ‘on the ballot’ then I figure it’s the choice I actually believe in and not just the slightly lesser of two evils. And so recently I feel targeted by democrats and its getting kind of weird and I was wondering if any other greens are experiencing the same thing in the US. I’m very open about my party preference and intentions for 2024.
One day you might realize that sleazy politicians, regardless of party affiliation, don’t care about you or anything else but themselves.
Perhaps not, and far be it from me to defend electoral politics, being an anarchocommunist, but voting isn’t necessarily a negative thing. If it’s your only political action then you’re playing directly into the hands of those in power, but voting green, or voting for actually progressive candidates within the democratic party can have the effect of moving the Overton window and creating conversation. Think about how much more popular things like universal healthcare are because of Bernie. While Bernie may not be as far left as I am, and while it’s questionable if he would actually do, or be able to do, the things he wants (or claims to want, if we’re going full jade), being on the ballot, garnering national attention has had a palpable impact on US politics. The democratic party literally had to call off the primaries in 2020 for fear the socialist who was effectively running the country during the early days of a pandemic might actually do something aboit healthcare and get elected. Since then they’ve had to push a “but trump!” Narrative to scare anyone else from even running.
Yeah, politicians suck nasty ass, but expressing a view, a show of numbers, that you prefer one style to the other can and does have an impact. It just shouldn’t be the only thing we do, that’s what they want us to do. Mutual aid, direct action, and spend 1 day to vote.
I say all this as a non-American, just to be clear. All mainstream American politics looks right-wing to me.
I’d love if this were the case, but the pragmatist in me can’t agree. Right now, if Biden doesn’t win, the Overton window shifts to the right. Voting Green won’t shift the needle, as much as the idealist in me wishes it could. No-ones going to care that 2% more people voted for the Greens this time if Trump wins. Trump’s already stated his fascist ideals and the Overton window will shift to the right if he wins. Which means if you care about the Overton window at all, you vote to keep Trump out.
If the Democrats were in a more secure position then I’d say voting for the Greens would be very reasonable. It’d be a way to indicate that you’d like to continue to shift things leftwards. But right now, the best thing you can do if you care about left-wing or green values in the long-term is simply to keep Trump out.
Think about where you want politics to be in 2028, or 2032, or even 2036; do you think Trump or Biden winning is the best path to that goal? Because those are the realistic options right now. And personally, I think gradually shifting the Overton window leftwards is the way to do it, rather than letting the country slip into full-blown fascism and then hoping people will suddenly flip to socialism overnight on the evening before the 2036 election.
There certainly has been some of this. But I also think that’s something that’s very relevant right now. The time for finding more progressive Democrat candidates was during the primaries. Now, as difficult as it may be, the best thing to do is suck it up, rally behind Biden and fight for your long-term future by doing what you can to keep out the fascists. It’ll fucking suck, but not as much as Trump winning will.
Couple of small issues, but overall I do actually agree with you here.
It currently is our primary season. We just don’t get to have primaries, because the democratic party has decided we don’t deserve a choice, because somehow Biden is the only person on the planet able to defeat the devil… Somehow… The time to find progressive candidates is, according to the DNC checks notes never. Yeah. Never.
We’re not allowed a primary because it could potentially weaken Biden in the general. A stronger candidate would be bad. That’s the logic.
Secondly, as far as third party voting goes, if you’re in a red or blue state, it literally doesn’t count. The electoral college system prevents any protest vote from actually being considered. The only time it could sway anything is in a swing state, where it is unlikely to actually matter except in very close races. If you’re in a swing state, you have, IMHO, a moral obligation to vote for the democratic candidate, because while they may suck, they suck less than literal fascists. Otherwise, if you’re in a solid blue or red state, vote away however you wish, and use that to help push a narrative.
Which is why the only answer is direct democracy.
I think with the third parties there is less corruption. I think there is a lot of good to be done with the green party.