Before I get started, if you donāt know what the Library display is here is my initial post about it.
So I did say i would ask my professors about this display to see if they knew who put it up, why it was put up, and if they even knew what the red and black flag meant.
The first professor I talked to was my Political Science one. I entered his office to chat and before I could ask him about the display he asked me about my paper, then proceeded to give me lots of advice for it. That was not what I was ready for but whatever. I then asked him if he saw the display in the library, he said no. I asked if he knew what it was about even if he hadnāt seen it, again he said no. He told me to explain it to him and I did, it was the āsoldiers of freedomā display with a bunch of posters. He seemed to sort of know what I was talking about. I asked him if he knew who put it up, he didnāt know but thinks it may have been the Library itself or the Ukrainian āclubā at school (its more official than a club but I donāt know what to call it without outing my location). Before i showed him the photos of the posters with the OUN flag I gave him a disclaimer that I was asking a very fair question, and while he is allowed to feel however he wants I would appreciate not being projected on. After he was primed I showed him my phone and asked him what the flag was, in the picture I showed him the Ukrainian flag was also there and he pointed it out, I had to say I was asking about the red one specifically. He looked at it for a bit and said he didnāt know. I tried to push him on it a bit more but he seriously didnāt know. He then asked me if I knew what it was and I said no. He told me that because its on a soldier display it might be that specific militiaās insignia. I wasnāt super happy with this but tried to play it cool.
He then asked if I was interested in this and I said yes. He then said he is a part of the Ukrainian āclubā and can take me to the office to ask them about it, I shot this down right away. I tried to push again, āyou really donāt know?ā He said that he is anti-war and doesnāt involve himself with military stuff so heās unaware of what the insignia means, he finds war and stuff like it objectionable. With that I asked if he found the display objectionable, he got a little thrown off by this and said that we have a large Ukrainian diaspora here and this is their way too show support to their soldiers fighting to protect their territory. He then brought up the surge in Russophobia in Canada, like for example during a heritage day event the Russian pavilion was banned from appearing which is horrible (we both agreed on that) was one of the big ones, and that many Russians have to stay quiet nowadays even if they support Ukraine (this probably isnāt what he meant but is the only good Russian the one that supports Ukraine?). He then asked me if I found the display objectionable, I had to lie and say I didnāt really know. It was an odd and very disappointing conversation.
I couldnāt really find an opening to ask Tovarish Tomatoās question but I did when I asked my History professor about it. (I donāt know how to tag people)
During office hours for my History professor I spent the first half discussing the class material (which I wont talk about here to save you guys from that). After that I asked him if he saw the display in the library, he said no. I then explained it to him to give him an idea. After he understood I skipped the question about who couldāve displayed it as he had no idea it even existed. So I went straight to telling him that four out of the 24 posters had this symbol on it and I wanted to know if he knew what it was. When I showed him the flag he also said he didnāt know, he asked if I knew and I lied saying I didnāt know (I donāt know if he believed me). He then opened his computer and looked it up. He went to the Wikipedia and skimmed it a bit, coming to the conclusion that it is associated with Ukrainian nationalism, with far right connotations, and neo-Nazis. He knows Iām planning on writing my history paper about the genocide in the Donbas and he thought maybe this interrogation was related. He went on to explain that because of the famine many Ukrainians had their nationalism fuelled and sided with the Nazis. I tried to explain away my motivations as just curiosity because I am not about to put a target on my back with the school.
This all happened on Wednesday, today I went back and asked Tovarish Tomatoās question.
When I entered his office I cut right to the case saying that my question had nothing to do with class and it was about the poster display and the symbol used in some of the posters. I said that it was really bothering me and I would appreciate a historianās perspective because Iām having a hard time. I then asked ādo you think it is appropriate and responsible to showcase an artist that utilizes neo-Nazi imagery in his works in the university.ā I know that wasnāt Tovarish Tomatoās question word for word but I think we all know I have to rephrase things for my own safety.
He then said that he isnāt sure and that he would need to know more about what that OUN flag means to the people who put up the posters. If it means fascism then itās bad to display, but if the flag means Ukrainian freedom from Russian oppression then itās fine. He then said that symbols change meaning and this one could very well mean something else so we have to keep that in mind (reclamation and all that). If it was the swastika or the confederate flag then it would be an actual issue. He then asked if I had a problem with this display, and I really tried to play it off, saying I didnāt care anymore, but I donāt think he believed me one bit because he pushed on it and I just told him that I just have to deal with whatever the university approves of whether I like it or not.
He then explained that he was not a historian on Ukraine so he isnāt the best authority on this subject, I then brought up Ivan Katchanovski as a source for information if I wanted to know more. He didnāt know who he was so I told him again and I guess heās going to look into him more. He then told me about Timothy Snyder, an American historian who apparently knows a lot about Ukraine, he then said I might not like him. I asked if heās American, he said yes, I then said āyeah I might have issues with him.ā As a little dig because American scholars can be the absolute worst. So with us exchanging scholars our chat ended and I went to the Library to study.
And what do you know? The display is still thereā¦.
He went on to explain that because of the famine many Ukrainians had their nationalism fuelled and sided with the Nazis.
except that many many many more Ukrainians were fighting on the side of the soviet union.
I tried to explain away my motivations because I am not about to put a target on my back with the school.
donāt you already have a target on your back by writing about donbas and being openly marxist with some professors? i mean to say that you might be more open with your politics than you give yourself credit.
donāt you already have a target on your back by writing about donbas and being openly marxist with some professors
Youāre right, Iām terrible at hiding it. I guess by target I mean not going to administration/official channels with my problems and being explicitly against the war. Thereās also the fact that I donāt say anything in front of students as they are much more dangerous than my professors.
My PoliSci professor knows about me wanting to teach Marxism and probably can tell Iām one based on my papers but, like you said, Marxism is not seen as a threat in academia so I donāt feel too bad talking to him about it, though I never bring it up anymore (he has though). Ideologically Iām opaque to my history professor (his words not mine) he claims to have no idea what Iām about.
I know Iām pushing it a lot but Iām so desperate for even a sliver of support, just a tiny bit. Other students can rely on their professors but so far I really really canāt and that sucks. It sucks being the only one who cares.
Iād be careful with this style of inquiry, SpaceDogs. It doesnāt sound like it, here, but if you are speaking to a crypto fascist, they wonāt like the idea that youāre going to out them.
A better tactic may be keeping an eye out for people who should/would be horrified by a public display of that flag. Speak with those people first. Better to do something with them than to try to push for a change on your own.
Itās unlikely that any of your profs will put their career on the line over a poster with a flag that hardly any normies have heard about. Especially given they the institution itself apparently supports the display. Things like this will have to go through so many channels. Lots of people with the power to make the decision have already seen the display and agreed to it.
As your prof said, they might say something if it was a swastika. But anything that can be brushed off as nationalism/patriotism, will be brushed off; except by those who explicitly mean something else by it ā and they wonāt appreciate your criticism.
The difference would be if there are any organised professors, maybe in a union? But thatās going to be difficult as even the organised Western left seems willing to dismiss Nazism if doing the right thing would get in the way of their hatred of Russia.
Iād be careful with this style of inquiry, SpaceDogs. It doesnāt sound like it, here, but if you are speaking to a crypto fascist, they wonāt like the idea that youāre going to out them.
Your right, Iām not being as careful as I could be, but I figured my professors were the safest people to go to with this. Iām avoiding administration and other official areas of the school because I know it would put me in more danger (like when my PoliSci professor offered to bring me to the Ukrainian āclubā to ask).
A better tactic may be keeping an eye out for people who should/would be horrified by a public display of that flag.
I honestly thought thatās what I was doing, being this to an educated person to hopefully find some sort of common ground. Looks like that back fired on me. I know itās dangerous for me but I donāt know what else to do, I havenāt the slightest idea how to find people who object to such displays without outright asking. Everyone so far is unassuming , if they feel the way I do then theyāre keeping it quiet.
Itās unlikely that any of your profs will put their career on the line over a poster with a flag that hardly any normies have heard about.
I didnāt think it would be enough to harm their careers, so I guess I understand inaction. Then again, the professors I asked donāt seem to be bothered anyway. My history professor does seem ādisturbedā by my discomfort, and by that I mean he seems to feel bad for me, so at best Iām more of a wounded bird than a threat.
I wanted to ask about if there was a professors union but I thought it would be inappropriate so I held back from doing so. Even though my PoliSci professor seems saddened by the horrific Russophobia in Canada it doesnāt matter since he does nothing to try to remedy it in his own classroom.
I know I have to keep my head down but itās so hard. Iām desperate for some kind of connection and support, and when I see the explicit play forming and support for fucking neo-Nazis it hammers home just how alone I am here and it really hurts. I was hoping so bad for someone to say āhey, I agree, this isnāt goodā but looks like that was the wrong call on my end. Being the only one who cares is really hard.
The political science professor who is part of the Ukraine club doesnāt know about the OUN flag and the history professor had to look it up on Wikipedia :wtf:
These are the people that students are expected to learn from?? Who tf supports a war without even knowing whoās fighting it?! Canadian education might just be shittier than the rest of the west when it comes to Ukraine.
Well I mean, you canāt remove a manās ignorance if thatās the thing which keeps his job hereā¦
The Ukraine club isnāt even a club, itās way more official which makes this situation so much worse. My history professor specializes in Britain history so it makes sense why he wouldnāt know but his responses to my other questions were disappointing.
I do wonder if my Political Science professor is aware of what truly sparked this war or if he seriously believes itās all due to Putinās egoā¦ Canadian education, at least in my province, is ass.
It makes sense that they donāt bite the hand that feeds them since they might jeopardize their jobs if they speak up. But youād think the political science professor of all people would recognize the politics at play here.
Maybe its a my province thing, because a professor from Manitoba literally went to Sochi and ātalkedā to Putin (she asked him his opinion on the situation of the Nazi being applauded in the Canadian Parliament) and even with the backlash she was facing from other academics, the school she works for refuses to punish her and sheās doing just fine. So why donāt my professors say anything? Either because our school will punish them unlike in Manitoba, or they are a-okay with what is going on. I personally believe its the latter.
Whoa do you know if Putin responded to that professor? I wanna know what he thinks about Canadians clapping for a Nazi too.
That said I think it might be a different situation because people broadly acknowledged that the man was a Nazi and some officials even resigned, right? I think itās a step too far to recognize Canadaās support for a Nazi army. Like, clapping for one decrepit dude can be handwaved away but itās extremely damning to realize youāre on the modern Axis powers yāknow? Itās ideology shattering
People are mad at the professor, Dr. Radhika Desai, because they think she was giving Putin free propaganda. He did respond to her as he was doing a Q&A, he basically called parliament out on their idiocy. Here is an article about it if youāre curious, and hereās another about the backlash dr. Desai received. Both are quite short so no need to worry about having to read too much text.
Dr. Desai is a frequent guest on the Geopolitical Economy Report, which is super cool. I wish I had a professor like her at my school, and while I havenāt been here very long I donāt think there are any.
Radhika is Canadian?? Iāve watched a ton of her discussions with Michael Hudson on Benās channel and all this time I never knew. I gotta go back and watch the videos I missed because apparently this all blew past me.
Also those articles are total buffoonery. The Nazi isnāt a Nazi, no heās a veteran that fought on the side of the āNazi forcesā. And it was a mistake so donāt think about it! Reporting factual events is Russian propaganda!!! Also our paper reached out to a random fascist and he said that Desai attended an illegitimate Kremlin-curated cEsSPoOl of dISiNfORmaTioN. Our secret police wonāt confirm whether sheās being investigated. But donāt get any ideas, yāall normies better not visit Russia either because you could be smuggling intellectual property!!
I canāt believe auto correct made me look like an idiot, I swear I wrote her name correctly before sending my reply lol. But, yes, she is Canadian and that fact makes me a little less willing to leave the country. I wish she was where I live but so far Iām shit out of luck.
The CBC is your basic propaganda machine. Theyāre government funded, which isnāt necessarily a bad thing but they will go to bat for whoever is in power, right now itās the Liberals, next time will most likely be the Conservatives. Either way itās pretty bad. Most of our news sources are like that: CTV and Global News are the only others I can recall off the top of my head but even less mainstream sources are essentially the same too.
I didnāt respondv to your first post, but what is up with the picture of Fidel? I donāt know what he has to do with Ukraine.
Someone else pointed this out too! Iād have approved of a Fidel display but we got stuck with this instead.
PolSci professor knows absolutely nothing about the subject they āteachā and claims to be āapoliticalā while taking very strong political stances in favour of the status quo, while also knowing nothing about the political topics they support.
I really wish I could say Iām surprised, but this is pretty typical. Fuckers like this have the easiest, laziest jobs in the world.
When he told me he was a part of the Ukrainian āclubā of the school it just made me more confused because as far as I know heās not Ukrainian himself, and while thats not a problem, I am surprised he doesnāt know what the OUN flag is when he seems so involved in the war and Ukrainian affairs. He also claims to be very against war and violence yet he sees no problem in a display glorifying soldiers and war, when Ukrainians do it itās fine I guess.
Ideologically heās told me heās an eclectic, but he definitely comes across as a Liberal to me. When China is talked about you can tell he has a huge bias against the CPC. North Korea is also a target in class and of course his personal beef with Putin too.
This semester has really proven to me what kind of institution this really isā¦ hopefully I wonāt be here for much longer.
He really sounds like every political science professor Iāve ever heard of. Smugly ignorant and refuses to even consider that there are more points of view than their own, but considers themselves to be an āopen mindedā person, because they will ālistenā to what other people say before finding some excuse to dismiss them out of hand.
PolSci people are probably the most Ultra-turbo-lib I can think of. These are people who have pursued a degree in professional lib hand waving, I donāt think thereās any hope of them ever changing their minds. They will 100% support the status quo in all things and accuse you of being āignorantā if you dare to suggest the status quo is bad in any meaningful way.
