• lorty@lemmygrad.ml
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    9 months ago

    Is western leadership insane? Do they really think escalating into WW3 is a winning move? Are they drinking their own propaganda about russian nukes being duds? Or they believe Russia will simply not use them first?

    • darkcalling@lemmygrad.ml
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      9 months ago

      They’re drunk off liberal racist propaganda. The Euros believe, at least some of them, that the west is real democracy, that’s its fragile and that it and liberalism itself is failing. That Russia succeeding here will not stop here, will send a message against liberalism and democracy. These people literally see themselves as the elves and humans of middle earth and Russia/China/brown people that aren’t part of the “international rules based community” of Euro/Anglo subjugation and vassalhood as being the massed armies of evil orcs at their gates ready to throw humanity into darkness, into a new dark age, to wash over them and destroy all their liberal ‘progress’.

      They said it themselves, Europe is a garden, the rest of the world is a jungle, they think they and their order have cultivated something special, good, unique, and necessary for all of humanity to be part of. They see their liberalism and capitalism as liberating and want to ‘liberate’ everyone under it, by contrast they see Russia/China as ‘authoritarian’ and anti-liberal, anti-their-order, anti-freedom, anti-human-rights. So some of them are having a huge panic. And yes many of them unironically see this through the lens of Hitler and WW2 because that’s the only time they/the US order were on the side of the good guys and therefore it’s just a rematch between this nebulous, poorly understood to liberals, ‘authoritarianism’ and total control vs their side of goodness.

      I think most American planners are not so drunk on this particular delusion, are more cynical and realistic about things while still thinking deep down they are the best and America is exceptional. But to Europe they feel the whole post-war-order is falling apart, France lost its Sahal neo-colonies in Africa because of this, more and more countries are aligning with China/Russia. The lie they were sold is falling apart, the end of history they were proclaimed to enjoy is not going as planned and they have no idea what to really do in the face of this but try to fight and confront the forces spearheading it and destroy them.

      • cfgaussian@lemmygrad.mlOP
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        9 months ago

        This is exactly it. European liberals have lost it. They see their “world order” slipping through their fingers, they don’t understand why and they are panicked out of their mind. They have no idea what to do about it other than recklessly escalate, and this in turn just accelerates the dynamics that are driving those changes in the first place.

  • radio_free_asgarthr [he/him, comrade/them]@hexbear.net
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    9 months ago

    I really shouldn’t be surprised, but it is kind of shocking to be confronted with how comfortable leaders of NATO countries are gambling with nuclear war. But I do think the argument at the end is interesting. Basically, the West realizes that Ukraine wont last much longer. So they are putting a bunch of NATO personnel in to prevent occupation of a rump west Ukraine on threat of direct NATO retaliation.

    • OrnluWolfjarl@lemmygrad.ml
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      9 months ago

      They are gambling that in the end, total war will be averted somehow. Of course, this is the same gamble the Germans and Austrians were playing before WW1.

  • REEEEvolution@lemmygrad.ml
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    9 months ago

    They know there’s a chance of nuclear war, but there is the certainty of Washingtons wrath uppon them if they do not comply.