Asking as there has been a few comments mentioning this with the new [email protected] taking over [email protected]
[email protected] for additional context on those recent events if you are interested
Also, an older post for more context on how lemmy.ml is managed: https://lemmy.world/post/16211417
Curious to hear other thoughts about this, as I’m trying to keep [email protected] active, but might suggest to move it elsewhere if a lot of people prefer not to interact with lemmy.ml communities
Previously no. Now yes. Apparently got banned for inciting ‘peril’ against my own race because tankies don’t know the difference between ethnically Chinese and of Chinese nationality, and apparently you can’t criticize china in the forums. Throw in a few abusive individuals from the same instance shooting off the mouth and I pretty much said fuck it, I’m out.
Yep. Even if it’s larger, I’ll post in a smaller, non-ml. I don’t mind reading their stuff and them existing but with the seemingly random moderation shenanigans, I avoid it.
lemmy.ml tends to have an immature userbase with immature mods. It’s a weird bubble of insane extremists that are all about ideological purity tests. They aren’t really interested in discussion and will ban anyone that doesn’t conform to their extremism. And their extremists are constantly edging towards stochastic terrorism.
So needless to say, I’m banned from lemmy.ml, and I feel like that’s a badge of honour. But that does mean I won’t be engaging with any community that’s hosted on lemmy.ml.
So if you want to have discussion that’s not about how super awesome the violent overthrow of the government of your country would be, I’d recommend not hosting your community on lemmy.ml.
So what you are saying is that since you are banned from lemmy.ml, you cannot participate in communities such as [email protected], for reasons entirely unrelated to anything that you said in that community?
Which means conversely that from your perspective, that entire community - and all others likewise hosted on lemmy.ml - are “held hostage” behind you either outright agreeing with whatever stance is taken by the instance admins, about whatever subject matters they choose to be the defining criteria for exclusion from the instance, or else at least you need to STFU about your true thoughts, about e.g. China, and capitalism, and Russia, and whatever else they feel like adding at any given moment.
It would have been nice to have had a warning presented to you, wouldn’t it? Like when you first go there, have a popup or sidebar note saying “Warning: you must agree that neither China nor Russia is actively engaging in genocide in order to participate in this community discussion about… <checks notes> the popular Firefox web browser”.
I bet reading the sidebar notice presented on lemmy.ca did not quite prepare you for that!?!?!?
It would be nicer to segregate “political” communities and instances from apolitical ones. Except these days, facts themselves are political, and all we can do is suck it and swallow.
Yeah it’s really lame… seems like the ban is permanent, so I went ahead and blocked lemmy.ml. No point in seeing content from communities that some self-righteous admin decided I shouldn’t be allowed to interact with.
It is what it is. I already left reddit because of their bullshit owners. There’s still way better communities on reddit than on lemmy.ml, and as bullshit as the owners of reddit are, they’re still not as bad as the owners of lemmy.ml. So if it were really an issue to me I’d just go back to reddit. But it’s fun to discuss things in smaller communities so I’ll stick with lemmy, just not lemmy.ml.
Yeah that’s what I am starting to realize over the last couple of days - that while Reddit was bad, in some ways at least, they were less bad than Lemmy, or as you say at least lemmy.ml.
The key ingredient there is the transparency: Huffman may be a dick, but at least he is upfront about things: “you are landed gentry, under MY dominion, mu-wha-ha-ha now all will bow before me” indeed, but contrast that to claiming that lemmy.ml is for “A community of privacy and FOSS enthusiasts, run by Lemmy’s developers.” - but did you get banned for spouting paid software? Or for violating privacy? No, or at least doubtful (I didn’t look:-). Look at the four rules - which ones did you break, that would warrant a site-wide ban? Some people get banned for none, e.g. for claiming that they have Uyghur family members staying with them who have experienced discrimination and potential genocide and… BAM, ban hammer. Bc neither Russia nor China can ever do any wrong - it is the USA that is “evil”, that is “capitalist”, and “democratic”, and “doing genocide”, but again, not precious Russia or China that does so.
I am looking heavily into alternatives that will allow banning lemmy.ml users across the Fediverse. One is lemmy.cafe, another is the Tesseract UI as implemented e.g. on dubvee.org, and another is Mbin (maybe, unless a bug no longer allows that? I saw one report of such anyway, but don’t have an account so cannot confirm), and I am leaning heavily towards joining PieFed, bc it’s so exciting what it is positioning itself to become in the future. Sublinks too but it never seems to be updating anymore, so I guess it’s stalled somehow.
Dessalines can do as he pleases. If we don’t like it, we can leave Lemmy. Those are our options.
The path to inner peace.
Why midwest.social? I definitely agree with the rest though.
Usual tankie nonsense masquerading as progressivism.
Call out their bullshit, get a ban.
I haven’t seen that on midwest.social yet, but I’m definitely gonna continue to observe this and then decide if it’s worth blocking them
Similar “moderation” practices as done on lemmy.ml, but unlike the latter, the users of Midwest.social themselves seem mostly well-behaved rather than toxic edgelords. Note that not all of the Lemmy.ml users are that way, and I might even believe that most are not, but conversely whenever I see the most batshit insane comments, it is always from one of the big 3: lemmygrad.ml, hexbear.net, and to a lesser but still extremely notable degree, Lemmy.ml.
https://lemmy.world/post/18414833
https://lemmy.world/post/19849559
etc.
I see more content complaining about .ml than I see content on .ml worth complaining about.
I generally don’t block instances, communities, or users, either. I just know I am capable of recognizing a shit take on politics anywhere and can move on without existential or social crisis.
I only block communities. I don’t want to see half of conversations, and haven’t encountered a whole server where they refuse to admin properly.
That’s bc you are an established user who knows their way around how to use Lemmy. Perhaps you even use Arch btw? (/s, but only partway, bc those of who enjoy the customizability of Linux really are a breed apart from the mainstream, in terms of our value judgements in particular)
However new users to Lemmy find it very off-putting. Also, people in the USA are touchy, watching our democracy crumble before our very eyes - there is something like a 50% chance that it won’t survive even though the next year, regardless of who wins, but if it does, then we’ll simply repeat all of this again in the next one, and so on. So for those of us who watched e.g. Innuendo Studios’ The Alt Right Playbook, to now see those identical patterns of behaviors on display (by “tankies” or whoever), is more than a little disconcerting.
And tbf, the likes of lemmy.ml is nothing at all on the scale of Lemmygrad.ml and hexbear.net. So if you want to remain federated with some or all of those, then power to you and I am very glad that you can enjoy your time on the Fediverse.
However, not all of us are in the same boat and some of us would rather only see the half of the conversation that we don’t have to mentally parse and decode what it means before we throw it away. Without having to block hundreds of individual trolls I mean. Ofc we are prevented from doing so since user level defederation does not exist, and the only instance I’ve ever even so much as heard of that blocks all of the big 3 is Lemmy.cafe. So rather than wait for Sublinks/PieFed/Mbin to improve, perhaps I should move there?
Maybe this is all intellectual laziness? I dunno, I truly don’t, but also I don’t see the harm in allowing people to have their preferences met?
some of us would rather only see the half of the conversation
Well I guess the only thing I could possibly say to that woul–
Hehe, way to be a part of the chang–
I just know I am capable of recognizing a shit take on politics anywhere
Not when the “shit take” in question is the arbitrary, capricious, unjustified removal of thoughtful, insightful, accurate, reasonable posts and comments. You (generally) can’t recognize the “shit take” of removing good content unless you spend all day reading the mod logs.
No, but I can almost always check the modlog when a user complains about how their thoughtful, insightful, accurate, and reasonable post or comment was arbitrarily, capriciously, and unjustly removed.
And that comparison rarely disappoints.
No, but I can almost always check the modlog
whenif a user complainsFTFY.
The authors of thoughtful, insightful, accurate, and reasonable posts and comments tend to be the kind of people who choose their battles, and quietly walk away from communities led by power-tripping dipshits.
Very well articulated!:-)
I definitely try to avoid it. Whenever there’s an (active) alternative community available, I prefer that.
I never pay attention to, or care about where a community is hosted
I have to say the responses in this thread are a bummer, but I’m not surprised. I signed up on lemmy.ml because when I read the descriptions of the various instances, ML’s “A community of privacy and FOSS enthusiasts” sounded pretty great and I saw a lot of technical communities that interested me. I didn’t expect the politics. I tried to make a new user on .world a few months back, but I seemed to get stuck in some sort of user verification limbo. Maybe I’ll try midwest.social since I moved to the midwest recently.
DBZero is a great option if you like something slightly edgy
Dbzero and programming.dev are already also high on my list, but thanks for the recommendation. I’m not in a super hurry to move or anything, I’ve never been given a hard time on ML, but I hate to think I’m slowly being edged out of the wider lemmy experience.
slowly being edged out of the wider lemmy experience.
If your home instance is lemmy.ml and it’s just people using communities on instances other than lemmy.ml, then you still get the full experience, unless you’re committed to only using locally-hosted communities or something.
If instances are defederating with lemmy.ml, then you’re missing content.
I don’t know of an easy way to get a list of which instances have defederated with a given instance. The information is public, and I wouldn’t be surprised if someone has a spider, like the lemmyverse.net one, that gathers it. But as things stand, it’s easy to, given an instance name, know which instances it has defederated from, but not which instances have defederated from it.
I don’t know of an easy way to get a list of which instances have defederated with a given instance.
there’s a website out there showing exactly this,but for the life of me I can’t rememeber the URL >_<
There used to be this, but most of the instances give errors nowadays:
https://defed.xyz/check?name=Lemmy.ml&software=lemmy
This one seems to work: https://fba.ryona.agency/?reverse=Lemmy.ml
Oh yeah that’s the one
At least the latter one is just showing which instances the named instance has defederated from, not which instances have defederated from the named instance.
That’s easy to get by checking /instances on a given instance already.
The problem is that you’d need some kind of spider that crawls all of the instances to get the reverse of that.
The former one does seem to show it.
At least the latter one is just showing which instances the named instance has defederated from, not which instances have defederated from the named instance.
You are correct, I don’t why they called it reverse, it’s confusing
Here’s the search I wanted: https://fba.ryona.agency/?domain=Lemmy.ml
It’s absolutely the defederating that worries me more than the blocking. I have seen talk about nontrivial lemmy instances mulling defederation enough to keep an eye on it though.
.ca is good as well, the admin is top tier and very transparent with the userbase. I’m quite happy with my instance.
And you have to endure the hex and ml users… yay…
I block politics subs and have never had an issue with lemmy.ml. All the issues I see are related to politics.
What’s wrong with lemmy.ml?
As someone on .ml I really don’t think it’s that bad. Definitely left, and generally pro-China, but not too extreme imo. Hexbear is pretty bad. I’m a socialist and I disagree with a lot of the stuff there. But .ml is very much not a true “tankie” instance, in my opinion.
A lot of the issues people have with .ml are the practices of the admins.
Though also when hexbear.net was defederated from so many instances, a lot of those users switched to using their Lemmy.ml alts - many are quite open about this fact - and just continued posting as they had done previously, despite that style being the very reason why hexbear.net had been defederated from.
And when more instances - like lemmy.cafe - start defederating from Lemmy.ml, then those users will surely switch to alts on something like lemmy.world or Lemm.ee that are generally considered too large to be defederated from.
A lot of innocent users get caught up in the cross hairs of this fight between tankies vs. anti-tankies. People using your instance as a platform to attack (e.g. brigade and otherwise spew forth toxicity) other instances, yet possibly behaving normally else wise inside the instance itself.
Also, whether something is “extreme” or not depends on someone’s background context, and I would definitely say that the content on lemmy.ml is considered somewhat extreme for someone on America. Even/especially those who even consider themselves as “liberal”, not realizing yet what little that means on the international stage. The content is nowhere close to being as extreme as that from lemmygrad.ml or hexbear.net, but far more so than e.g. Reddit or Mastodon.
So I hope I have adequately conveyed that it’s not your fault in any way, you also expanding to mean all the other innocent users on lemmy.ml, but I wanted to convey that yes, I would defederate myself from your instance in a heartbeat if given half the chance. Possibly you won’t even mind:-), but you seemed interested, so I hope I helped by writing all this out.
Removed by mod
Sigh… yup. Much of that has been traced back and shown to not have originated from inside the USA, but it does not matter how it started bc it’s endemic now. And regardless of the rhetoric the news itself is pretty violent, with all the reporting of mass shootings - you know, bc they actually happened, except most of the time the for-profit news media doesn’t bother anymore, and instead prefers to sell something sexier than all the needless deaths of children.
But you can’t wake someone up if they refuse to come into the door in the first place - that is what I meant about labeling content to make it more acceptable to a mainstream audience, so as to boost subscriber counts and thereby increase the overall health of the Fediverse. Being okay with stagnation seems unwise to me, bc it predicates a fall.
Oh yeah, and it makes total sense. The brigading, insofar as it happens, really shouldn’t. But also, as someone who espouses left wing views, I always want to give critical support to left spaces - even if they’re imperfect. And .ml and even hexbear have a lot of valuable discourse - I comment on hexbear threads regularly with less radical points of view than their users often have, and I get good responses and engagement usually because I’m good faith.
I thought I was left-wing myself, then realized that I may as well be a right-wing nut compared to global standards!:-D
But it takes time for people to learn and change. Mainstream people in the USA may still have valuable contributions to make here, like funny cartoons for us all to laugh at, and thus I decry how they are pushed away due to the extremist content on the Fediverse.
After watching Innuendo Studios’ The Alt Right Playbook, I just cannot listen to hexbears anymore. Those attempts to bully people in just about every conversation with “tactics” other than relying on the logical truths of the issues themselves just really turns me away.
Be careful - your circumstances surely differ from mine, with like your family and job and such - but I note that they are far more likely to change you than the reverse. It’s just how that works.
deleted by creator
US Democrat members get upset that the instance with 1600 users doesn’t agree with their opinions
Literally everyone else: “It’s bad to arbitrarily arrest someone for criticising corruption and send them and their family to labour camps.”
Tankies: “That’s just, your opinion, man.”
There they are!!!
This is literally it. I hear so much hate towards .ml that I find it hard dtobelieve they are fanatics lol
I found this in like 30 seconds yesterday: https://lemmy.ml/post/21605430.
Not that the content isn’t true, mind you, but it takes a special kind of cognitive dissonance to constantly make fun of capitalism and the USA, then wonder why people in capitalist nations and especially the USA don’t want to come hang out there. (Hey, only we can say the bad stuff about ourselves, ya’know!?:-P)
Found the alt
Found the fanatic. Lol
If the conversation is civil I’ll comment occasionally, but i don’t think I’d care if my instance defederated from them. They’re where a lot of tech related conversations are, sadly.
Tbh the bigger instances need to bite the bullet and defederate from .ml. There are alternatives to all the good comms on .ml, they just aren’t as active. Defederating would move a lot of users onto the alternatives and get some control back from the terrible .ml mods and admins.
Banning people from multiple completely unrelated comms for something that happened in one comm is bullshit and they abuse the hell out of that. I generally try not to participate in any .ml comm because of that.
But a lot of users on a lot of instances do not want to defederate, and thereby lose their communities that they want to receive content from, e.g. [email protected]. First such communities need to be migrated, or at least new alternatives made, and then the barrier to walking away will be lower. Progress is being made though, even if only slowly:-).
I’ve blocked the instance entirely. I never see posts from their communities, though I am surprised to still see users from it. I thought it would block everything.
Pasting from another comment in this thread:
The only way I know how to ditch the users, besides blocking each one individually, would be to make a new account on either dubvee.org or Lemmy.cafe where all 3 of the big 3 are completely defederated. Think of those instances as troll-blockers, working hard to keep the Fediverse pleasant to converse in:-).
lol
Dubvee is even worse than .ml for the censorship stuff. The admin banned a ton of people that never even knew of its existence until we all got spammed by his automod bot duplicating the instance wide ban to each and every individual community.
What!? How is that even possible…? Are you sure this was dubvee.org and not the Santabot, or are you saying this is the guy that did that? Bc I remember the Santabot and railed hard against it, but I think the Admiral Patrick guy just preemptively defederated from lemmy.ml, which wouldn’t send out a notification (I would hope) to literally everyone on that instance? That would be… shit, no bueno.
Another place that spams people with modlog entries is lemmy.ml itself - the admins there ban someone from every single community across the entire instance, even ones that they have never heard of.
Hey, can you send me a message to read more about the dubvee.org situation? I was just starting to seriously consider joining it, and over the last hour have recommended it to several people since it is one of only two total instances that has dared to defederate entirely from lemmy.ml. If the situation is insane then I should not do that, but what you are describing sounds awfully familiar, twice over even, yet with different causes, so I wonder if one of those is the explanation. At least, I am quite interested to learn more!?:-)
If there’s an overlapping or related community on another instance, I’ll avoid using the .ml version of that community
Yes. I find their gaming-chair leftism and obnoxious preachiness annoying enough to just avoid. My blocklist is filled with .ml users, and none of those were because of any political positions. It’s because they were annoying, whinging twats.
It’s because they were annoying, whinging twats.
Not even whinging, screaming.
Yes, I block lemmy.ml communities when I notice them, just because I don’t want to accidentally contribute anything to that instance. Some of the users are okay, but the admins are not.
