Okay, for the first part I can piece it together despite the wrong pronoun and understanding you to be saying that you are against genocide. So you are answering “yes” to the first half of the question. You claim to be against genocide. Great.
For the second one I cannot easily parse. I did not ask who you support, for example, but instead asked about having a red ljnr when it comes to voting. But let’s say you are saying “no” to the second half of my question, i.e. the only way I can grasp for clarity here. The second half of my question is, “Are you against […] voting for genocidal candidates?” If you are saying no to this, that puts us back to the last comment, where you were pitching a fit about me understanding your “no” to mean “no” and not a hidden third mystery thing.
If I were to be generous, it may be that you think I am asking if you are personally voting for genocidal candidates and you are substituting your own term (“support”). i.e. you thought I was asking, “Are you […] voting for genocidal candidates?” That would reverse the meaning of your answer. And that would put us away back to square one, which is you claiming it is not so simple. But of course it is that simple, you just say that genocide is unacceptable and that you will never vote for a genocider.
Sure, pretend to have trouble reading, that helps your case so much
It isn’t fucking hard
“Yes, I’m against genocide, and against supporting genocidal candidates”
How is that the wrong pronoun? Genocide and genocidal candidates add up to more than one thing.
“No, I don’t support genocide or genocidal candidates”
Really not hard to parse whatsoever.
Why do you have to act like things are so hard? I’ve answered your question so many fucking times and you still haven’t actually responded to it. You instead just continue to act as if i haven’t answered. Instead of continuing the discussion, you’re just keeping us trapped here, locked in this endless cycle of you asking the question and me answering, over and over until the eventual heat death of the universe.
The crazy thing is, looking through your comment history at your general opinions, it seems we actually agree on almost everything. So why are you so mad at me?
You’re just fucking trolling at this point. Fuck off
Sure, pretend to have trouble reading, that helps your case so much
I’m not pretending, you used language ambiguously. Like I said, wrong pronoun for the first one, namely wrong plurality. Is it one thing or several? I asked about one thing in the first part of my question. So you make me have to guess about what you mean. And then you throw a tantrum when I patiently try to work around you and explain. You could, instead, recognize your ambiguity and clarify.
Similarly, the second part of question did not ask who you support, but then your answer implied it did. What should I guess from that? Well, you can see my attempts.
It isn’t fucking hard
It is obviously incredibly difficult to get a direct answer given how long this thread is.
“Yes, I’m against genocide, and against supporting genocidal candidates”
How is that the wrong pronoun?
You are confused about what quotation marks are used for, again. You never said that sentence, which literally only has one pronoun, in the conjunction “I’m”. I am obviously not confused about that. Here is what you wrote:
Yes I’m against them
No, i don’t support them
I’ve already said this multiple times
Why pretend otherwise?
It’s the “them”, in the first sentence, which is a plural pronoun. The first part of my question asks about one thing, genocide. Not plural.
You should thank me for patient I am with you.
Genocide and genocidal candidates add up to more than one thing.
You gave a no answer to one and a yes to the other. Obviously the “them” cannot mean both simultaneously.
“No, I don’t support genocide or genocidal candidates”
Really not hard to parse whatsoever.
Another set of quotes used for something you didn’t say. And remember, the question you are responding to did not ask about your support. You keep confusing yourself with this. The question was whether you are (1) against genocide and whether you are (2) against voting for genocidal candidates.
Why do you have to act like things are so hard
As I have demonstrated, you have a bad habit of inserting terms when allegedly answering a yes or no question. And ambiguous and inappropriate pronouns.
Personally, I would prefer to not talk about language and clarity but this is the nonsense you have me deal with instead of just sticking with a clear yes or no to my yes or no question that it took you 4-5 reminders to even attempt answering.
I’ve answered your question so many fucking times and you still haven’t actually responded to it.
When you claimed to have provided an “emphatic no” to my question (“Are you against genocide and voting for genocidal candidates?”) I did respond to it, remember? A “no” response to that question, which you claimed to have provided an “emphatic no” to, would mean you are not against genocide and/or you are not against voting for genocidal candidates. I generously assumed you are actually against genocide since some of your other comments said so, and openly xonclyded that this means you are not against voting for genocidal candidates. Then I went off for a while about what that meant. Then you accused me of misinterpreting your “emphatic no” to my yes or no question.
And now we are back at “can this person provide a clear yes or no answer”. I have even offered you two interpretations of the second half of my question and dusentangled the parts so that you can clearly describe your meaning in the terms in which I presented my question. Instead you’re throwing in your own new phrasings.
Anyways, I will attempt to work with your new framings at the end, at least a little. I am too patient.
You instead just continue to act as if i haven’t answered. Instead of continuing the discussion, you’re just keeping us trapped here, locked in this endless cycle of you asking the question and me answering, over and over until the eventual heat death of the universe.
Remember, I would rather you just gave yes or no response to my yes or no question. You decided to play around and say unclear things.
It seems that your “emphatic no” is really a “yes” with unclear pronouns and reframings but somehow this is my fault.
The crazy thing is, looking through your comment history at your general opinions, it seems we actually agree on almost everything. So why are you so mad at me?
I am not mad at you. I am dismissive of you for trying to avoid my question like every other liberal and for trying to pretend the situation is not as simple as I presented it. It actually is, liberals just try to treat their inconsistency and cognitive dissonance as some kind of nuanced complexity.
Regarding having to ask you questions over and over again and try to get you to directly and clearly provide an answer you will stand by: that is obviously me being very latient with you.
You’re just fucking trolling at this point. Fuck off
Do a modicum of self-criticism on this exchange and you will see that I am correct in my responses. You are behaving defensively and have said several contradictory things. Unfortunately, you have also done so while trying to shore up liberal excuses for supporting genocide, such as the alleged complexity of big standard liberal electoral logic, and refuse to recognize that it is a dead simple as answering a yes or no question. And look at how much work it has taken you to do that simple thing, with my help. It was not complex. This is literally fifth grade discourse we are having here. But hoo boy, how much did you write that was not just saying “yes” or “no”?
Anyways, apparently your answer to my question is actually “yes”. You announce, for suresies, that you are against genocide and against voting for genocidal candidates. I am glad we are in agreement!
It wasn’t hard for me to say, which is why I’ve already said it many times.
I had to ask you 4-5 times in a row while you kept trying to share your electoral rationalizations instead. You tried to tell me it was a loaded question for 2-3 exchanges. Please be honest.
You have now provided a series unclear answers that you have always claimed are very clear despite being completely contradictory of one another. Your “emphatic no”? You have spent the last two comments telling me it was actually a yes, though again, doing so in the least clear way possible.
Remember, I asked a yes or no question. Your response requires 2 or 3 characters. 4 or 6 if you want to split the question. You have opted to do this instead and blame me for it, lol.
Are you ready yet to actually respond to my answer?
No, actually, you’re still beating around the bush regarding what that answer actually means, and trying to browbeat me for not answering despite the fact that i answered days ago. “I do not support genocide or genocide deniers”. Dozens of responses ago. Verbatim. An emphatic NO to supporting genocide or genocide deniers.
At this point I don’t even care any more. You’re not actually arguing against my answer - you’re instead simply refusing it. There’s no further progress to be made.
No, actually, you’re still beating around the bush regarding what that answer actually means
At no point have I beat around the bush. Given your behavior this must be projection.
Feel free to tell me what your answer “actually means” since apparently understanding it as a “yes” to my yes or no question I asked 4-5 times remains insufficient.
and trying to browbeat me for not answering despite the fact that i answered days ago.
Days ago you said the answer was an “emphatic no” and now it is a yes lmao. Do some self-crit, you are just lying at this point.
“I do not support genocide or genocide deniers”. Dozens of responses ago. Verbatim. An emphatic NO to supporting genocide or genocide deniers.
I never asked you about genocide deniers. I have not discussed genocide deniers at all. See how confused you are? Do self-crit and stop blaming me for your errors.
And don’t think I don’t notice which parts of my responses you skip over. I am giving you many opportunities to stop digging holes. You should take those opportunities.
At this point I don’t even care any more.
I see little evidence that you cared at any point. You seem to be far more interested in self-indulgence than taking any form of criticism, which is a liberal trait.
You’re not actually arguing against my answer - you’re instead simply refusing it.
I already pointed you to my response at the end of my comment two comments ago. It is actually you that are avoiding in engaging despite all this posturing. I am just waiting for you. Do you need me to repeat it? You could just ask instead of throwing this tantrum and lying.
There’s no further progress to be made.
It is funny how you would like tk think I have been the barrier, here. Just do the self-crit and stop accusing me of your bad behavior.
I will repeat my response, actually, because apparently you need this help but are too proud and liberal to accept it:
Anyways, apparently your answer to my question is actually “yes”. You announce, for suresies, that you are against genocide and against voting for genocidal candidates. I am glad we are in agreement!
At no point have I beat around the bush. Given your behavior this must be projection.
I have made my opinion on the subject quite clear from the outset. Please don’t gaslight me into thinking I’ve somehow been hiding anything. I have not. The entire time, I’ve told you what my position is. You’re simply refused to acknowledge it because you wanted a simple “yes” or “no” answer regarding a subject that is anything but binary.
Feel free to tell me what your answer “actually means” since apparently understanding it as a “yes” to my yes or no question I asked 4-5 times remains insufficient.
Okay I’m starting to wonder if maybe you have an overly literal way of thinking. It seems clear that what I was talking about was not you interpretation of my answer, but your opinion on it. As in - do you agree? Disagree? Do you think my answer is insufficient? Do you think I’m lying? What is your actual follow up to “learning” (even though you already knew) that I am against genocide, and against voting for genocidal candidates? What happens next? Are you going to ask me something else, are you going to make a statement regarding this position?
Days ago you said the answer was an “emphatic no” and now it is a yes lmao.
So you are overly literal. My answer was an emphatic no regarding supporting genocide and genocide deniers. When asked if I support them, I denied this emphatically. Here’s a question - are you honestly unable to take anything other than the singular word “no” as a negative? Does “absolutely not” count? How about an explanation why, such as “I would never, because that is wrong!”? Now, before you say “but you never said these things”, these are what’s known as examples. When I said “I do not support genocide of genocide deniers”, that is me emphatically denying support for genocide and genocide deniers. An emphatic “no”. When asked “do you” and I say “I do not”, that is a “no” in other words; a negative response; a denial.
Do some self-crit, you are just lying at this point.
Here’s some honesty for you - it actually boils my blood to be told I’m lying when I know I’m actually speaking my mind. It angers me a great deal to be misinterpreted to such a degree. I am not lying.
I see little evidence that you cared at any point.
Oh, please. Obviously I cared at least a little bit what you thought or else I never would have said anything. Don’t be so facetious.
You seem to be far more interested in self-indulgence than taking any form of criticism, which is a liberal trait.
That is a mere insult disguised as political analysis. “Liberal” is not a personality trait, and you are showing little evidence you know anything about what a liberal is other than “someone I don’t like”. As a reminder, liberalism is a political philosophy that arose out of the enlightenment and is characterised by individualism, a devotion to private property, etc etc.
I already pointed you to my response at the end of my comment two comments ago.
Really? You mean this:
Anyways, apparently your answer to my question is actually “yes”. You announce, for suresies, that you are against genocide and against voting for genocidal candidates. I am glad we are in agreement!
That’s not a response. That’s an acknowledgement. Which, oddly enough, was, in the words of someone, was “like pulling teeth” to get.
Like I said earlier in this comment, what I’m looking for is an actual response. It’s nice to know “we agree”, but it’s clear to me there’s something else you want to say but are waiting for me to say the right words or something, but I’m not playing that game.
And don’t think I don’t notice which parts of my responses you skip over.
What part of “I don’t care” didn’t you get? I wasn’t trying to hide anything.
I am giving you many opportunities to stop digging holes. You should take those opportunities.
Nope, not taking that bait.
Do you need me to repeat it? You could just ask instead of throwing this tantrum and lying.
I did ask: “Are you ready yet to actually respond to my answer?”
It is funny how you would like tk think I have been the barrier, here. Just do the self-crit and stop accusing me of your bad behavior.
Your “criticisms” are just your hurt feelings that I wouldn’t play your game. No, I will not apologise for not following your script.
I will repeat my response, actually, because apparently you need this help but are too proud and liberal to accept it:
The fact you keep using “liberal” as a mere insult instead of an actual estimation of someone’s political beliefs says multitudes more than anything else you’ve said, here. For one, it tells me that you’re viewing this as some kind of team sport with a good side and a bad side, which are defined not by morality but by their philosophical proximity to your current beliefs. And combined with the fact that you have yet to say anything even remotely politically relevant to the subject we’re discussing, and are instead focusing on pedantic semantic minutiae, completely ignoring the existence of equivalent statements (such as “I do not” equating to “no”) and nuance (acknowledging that binary morality does not apply here), tells me you’re either just a stubborn troll or are deluded about your own beliefs. Of the two of us here, the one who seems most philosophically liberal is you. You are the only one out of the two of us that actually has faith in liberal democracy.
And if I’m wrong on that, you’ve given me no reason to believe otherwise - your dogged insistence on this question, and the weight you’ve put on it, tells me you think “voting correctly” to be a very powerful act, capable of actually stopping the genocide.
Anyways, apparently your answer to my question is actually “yes”. You announce, for suresies, that you are against genocide and against voting for genocidal candidates. I am glad we are in agreement!
Like I already said - that is not a response. That is an acknowledgement. What comes next?
So tell me, why was that so hard for you to ssay?
I already answered this - it wasn’t hard to say. I already said it ages ago. Look:
Yes I’m against them
No, i don’t support them
I’ve already said this multiple times
Why pretend otherwise?
Okay, for the first part I can piece it together despite the wrong pronoun and understanding you to be saying that you are against genocide. So you are answering “yes” to the first half of the question. You claim to be against genocide. Great.
For the second one I cannot easily parse. I did not ask who you support, for example, but instead asked about having a red ljnr when it comes to voting. But let’s say you are saying “no” to the second half of my question, i.e. the only way I can grasp for clarity here. The second half of my question is, “Are you against […] voting for genocidal candidates?” If you are saying no to this, that puts us back to the last comment, where you were pitching a fit about me understanding your “no” to mean “no” and not a hidden third mystery thing.
If I were to be generous, it may be that you think I am asking if you are personally voting for genocidal candidates and you are substituting your own term (“support”). i.e. you thought I was asking, “Are you […] voting for genocidal candidates?” That would reverse the meaning of your answer. And that would put us away back to square one, which is you claiming it is not so simple. But of course it is that simple, you just say that genocide is unacceptable and that you will never vote for a genocider.
Sure, pretend to have trouble reading, that helps your case so much
It isn’t fucking hard
“Yes, I’m against genocide, and against supporting genocidal candidates”
How is that the wrong pronoun? Genocide and genocidal candidates add up to more than one thing.
“No, I don’t support genocide or genocidal candidates”
Really not hard to parse whatsoever.
Why do you have to act like things are so hard? I’ve answered your question so many fucking times and you still haven’t actually responded to it. You instead just continue to act as if i haven’t answered. Instead of continuing the discussion, you’re just keeping us trapped here, locked in this endless cycle of you asking the question and me answering, over and over until the eventual heat death of the universe.
The crazy thing is, looking through your comment history at your general opinions, it seems we actually agree on almost everything. So why are you so mad at me?
You’re just fucking trolling at this point. Fuck off
I’m not pretending, you used language ambiguously. Like I said, wrong pronoun for the first one, namely wrong plurality. Is it one thing or several? I asked about one thing in the first part of my question. So you make me have to guess about what you mean. And then you throw a tantrum when I patiently try to work around you and explain. You could, instead, recognize your ambiguity and clarify.
Similarly, the second part of question did not ask who you support, but then your answer implied it did. What should I guess from that? Well, you can see my attempts.
It is obviously incredibly difficult to get a direct answer given how long this thread is.
You are confused about what quotation marks are used for, again. You never said that sentence, which literally only has one pronoun, in the conjunction “I’m”. I am obviously not confused about that. Here is what you wrote:
It’s the “them”, in the first sentence, which is a plural pronoun. The first part of my question asks about one thing, genocide. Not plural.
You should thank me for patient I am with you.
You gave a no answer to one and a yes to the other. Obviously the “them” cannot mean both simultaneously.
Another set of quotes used for something you didn’t say. And remember, the question you are responding to did not ask about your support. You keep confusing yourself with this. The question was whether you are (1) against genocide and whether you are (2) against voting for genocidal candidates.
As I have demonstrated, you have a bad habit of inserting terms when allegedly answering a yes or no question. And ambiguous and inappropriate pronouns.
Personally, I would prefer to not talk about language and clarity but this is the nonsense you have me deal with instead of just sticking with a clear yes or no to my yes or no question that it took you 4-5 reminders to even attempt answering.
When you claimed to have provided an “emphatic no” to my question (“Are you against genocide and voting for genocidal candidates?”) I did respond to it, remember? A “no” response to that question, which you claimed to have provided an “emphatic no” to, would mean you are not against genocide and/or you are not against voting for genocidal candidates. I generously assumed you are actually against genocide since some of your other comments said so, and openly xonclyded that this means you are not against voting for genocidal candidates. Then I went off for a while about what that meant. Then you accused me of misinterpreting your “emphatic no” to my yes or no question.
And now we are back at “can this person provide a clear yes or no answer”. I have even offered you two interpretations of the second half of my question and dusentangled the parts so that you can clearly describe your meaning in the terms in which I presented my question. Instead you’re throwing in your own new phrasings.
Anyways, I will attempt to work with your new framings at the end, at least a little. I am too patient.
Remember, I would rather you just gave yes or no response to my yes or no question. You decided to play around and say unclear things.
It seems that your “emphatic no” is really a “yes” with unclear pronouns and reframings but somehow this is my fault.
I am not mad at you. I am dismissive of you for trying to avoid my question like every other liberal and for trying to pretend the situation is not as simple as I presented it. It actually is, liberals just try to treat their inconsistency and cognitive dissonance as some kind of nuanced complexity.
Regarding having to ask you questions over and over again and try to get you to directly and clearly provide an answer you will stand by: that is obviously me being very latient with you.
Do a modicum of self-criticism on this exchange and you will see that I am correct in my responses. You are behaving defensively and have said several contradictory things. Unfortunately, you have also done so while trying to shore up liberal excuses for supporting genocide, such as the alleged complexity of big standard liberal electoral logic, and refuse to recognize that it is a dead simple as answering a yes or no question. And look at how much work it has taken you to do that simple thing, with my help. It was not complex. This is literally fifth grade discourse we are having here. But hoo boy, how much did you write that was not just saying “yes” or “no”?
Anyways, apparently your answer to my question is actually “yes”. You announce, for suresies, that you are against genocide and against voting for genocidal candidates. I am glad we are in agreement!
So tell me, why was that so hard for you to say?
It wasn’t hard for me to say, which is why I’ve already said it many times.
Are you ready yet to actually respond to my answer?
I had to ask you 4-5 times in a row while you kept trying to share your electoral rationalizations instead. You tried to tell me it was a loaded question for 2-3 exchanges. Please be honest.
You have now provided a series unclear answers that you have always claimed are very clear despite being completely contradictory of one another. Your “emphatic no”? You have spent the last two comments telling me it was actually a yes, though again, doing so in the least clear way possible.
Remember, I asked a yes or no question. Your response requires 2 or 3 characters. 4 or 6 if you want to split the question. You have opted to do this instead and blame me for it, lol.
I did. See the bottom of my previous comment.
No, actually, you’re still beating around the bush regarding what that answer actually means, and trying to browbeat me for not answering despite the fact that i answered days ago. “I do not support genocide or genocide deniers”. Dozens of responses ago. Verbatim. An emphatic NO to supporting genocide or genocide deniers.
At this point I don’t even care any more. You’re not actually arguing against my answer - you’re instead simply refusing it. There’s no further progress to be made.
At no point have I beat around the bush. Given your behavior this must be projection.
Feel free to tell me what your answer “actually means” since apparently understanding it as a “yes” to my yes or no question I asked 4-5 times remains insufficient.
Days ago you said the answer was an “emphatic no” and now it is a yes lmao. Do some self-crit, you are just lying at this point.
I never asked you about genocide deniers. I have not discussed genocide deniers at all. See how confused you are? Do self-crit and stop blaming me for your errors.
And don’t think I don’t notice which parts of my responses you skip over. I am giving you many opportunities to stop digging holes. You should take those opportunities.
I see little evidence that you cared at any point. You seem to be far more interested in self-indulgence than taking any form of criticism, which is a liberal trait.
I already pointed you to my response at the end of my comment two comments ago. It is actually you that are avoiding in engaging despite all this posturing. I am just waiting for you. Do you need me to repeat it? You could just ask instead of throwing this tantrum and lying.
It is funny how you would like tk think I have been the barrier, here. Just do the self-crit and stop accusing me of your bad behavior.
I will repeat my response, actually, because apparently you need this help but are too proud and liberal to accept it:
Anyways, apparently your answer to my question is actually “yes”. You announce, for suresies, that you are against genocide and against voting for genocidal candidates. I am glad we are in agreement!
So tell me, why was that so hard for you to ssay?
I have made my opinion on the subject quite clear from the outset. Please don’t gaslight me into thinking I’ve somehow been hiding anything. I have not. The entire time, I’ve told you what my position is. You’re simply refused to acknowledge it because you wanted a simple “yes” or “no” answer regarding a subject that is anything but binary.
Okay I’m starting to wonder if maybe you have an overly literal way of thinking. It seems clear that what I was talking about was not you interpretation of my answer, but your opinion on it. As in - do you agree? Disagree? Do you think my answer is insufficient? Do you think I’m lying? What is your actual follow up to “learning” (even though you already knew) that I am against genocide, and against voting for genocidal candidates? What happens next? Are you going to ask me something else, are you going to make a statement regarding this position?
So you are overly literal. My answer was an emphatic no regarding supporting genocide and genocide deniers. When asked if I support them, I denied this emphatically. Here’s a question - are you honestly unable to take anything other than the singular word “no” as a negative? Does “absolutely not” count? How about an explanation why, such as “I would never, because that is wrong!”? Now, before you say “but you never said these things”, these are what’s known as examples. When I said “I do not support genocide of genocide deniers”, that is me emphatically denying support for genocide and genocide deniers. An emphatic “no”. When asked “do you” and I say “I do not”, that is a “no” in other words; a negative response; a denial.
Here’s some honesty for you - it actually boils my blood to be told I’m lying when I know I’m actually speaking my mind. It angers me a great deal to be misinterpreted to such a degree. I am not lying.
Oh, please. Obviously I cared at least a little bit what you thought or else I never would have said anything. Don’t be so facetious.
That is a mere insult disguised as political analysis. “Liberal” is not a personality trait, and you are showing little evidence you know anything about what a liberal is other than “someone I don’t like”. As a reminder, liberalism is a political philosophy that arose out of the enlightenment and is characterised by individualism, a devotion to private property, etc etc.
Really? You mean this:
That’s not a response. That’s an acknowledgement. Which, oddly enough, was, in the words of someone, was “like pulling teeth” to get.
Like I said earlier in this comment, what I’m looking for is an actual response. It’s nice to know “we agree”, but it’s clear to me there’s something else you want to say but are waiting for me to say the right words or something, but I’m not playing that game.
What part of “I don’t care” didn’t you get? I wasn’t trying to hide anything.
Nope, not taking that bait.
I did ask: “Are you ready yet to actually respond to my answer?”
Your “criticisms” are just your hurt feelings that I wouldn’t play your game. No, I will not apologise for not following your script.
The fact you keep using “liberal” as a mere insult instead of an actual estimation of someone’s political beliefs says multitudes more than anything else you’ve said, here. For one, it tells me that you’re viewing this as some kind of team sport with a good side and a bad side, which are defined not by morality but by their philosophical proximity to your current beliefs. And combined with the fact that you have yet to say anything even remotely politically relevant to the subject we’re discussing, and are instead focusing on pedantic semantic minutiae, completely ignoring the existence of equivalent statements (such as “I do not” equating to “no”) and nuance (acknowledging that binary morality does not apply here), tells me you’re either just a stubborn troll or are deluded about your own beliefs. Of the two of us here, the one who seems most philosophically liberal is you. You are the only one out of the two of us that actually has faith in liberal democracy.
And if I’m wrong on that, you’ve given me no reason to believe otherwise - your dogged insistence on this question, and the weight you’ve put on it, tells me you think “voting correctly” to be a very powerful act, capable of actually stopping the genocide.
Like I already said - that is not a response. That is an acknowledgement. What comes next?
I already answered this - it wasn’t hard to say. I already said it ages ago. Look:
“I do not support genocide, or support genocide deniers.”