• Makan@lemmygrad.mlEnglish
    7·
    4 days ago

    I’m gonna be honest.

    Even though I didn’t like Kamala, I still view the overall result as a tragedy for the working-class, as the cultural zeitgeist will likely change following this.

    • sinovictorchan@lemmygrad.ml
      5·
      6 days ago

      While you are talking about the destruction of America, is the True God of Christianity, Yahweh, already selling America to social liberals and flooding American with immigrants of mixed-European origin and non-European origin as punishment for their fake school death camp genocides against Indigenous people and their refusal to confess that the Nazi Holocaust is a cheap imitation of the ongoing war crimes by the Western European empires and British diaspora?

  • soumerd_retardataire@lemmygrad.ml
    18·
    5 days ago

    At first, i agreed with the explanations based on the lack of cohesion of the democratic party, and the influence of Palestine, on the votes :

    With most votes counted, the 2024 election elected D.Trump with ~73M votes vs. ~68M for K.Harris, compared to 2020 when D.Trump was rejected despite having the same numbers(, 74.2M,) and J.Biden was elected with 81.3M votes.
    Furthermore, D.Trump would have received less votes without influent people like Robert Kennedy Jr. on his side, who still received votes apparently.
    However, third parties like the libertarian party or the Green party received much more votes in 2016 than in 2024(, and the republican&democratic parties much less). Having gained 1M votes at most wouldn’t have that much of an impact.
    (I’ve also sometimes heard(, mostly twitter, but here’s msnbc,) that the 2.5M muslim-americans voted D.Trump in opposition but that’s not supported(source), even if J.Stein should have obtained much more if these surveys were trustworthy).
    While i can’t deny the influence of many pro-Palestine actors, i can’t really prove it by the numbers either, and some deny its importance. Also, the high voter turnout doesn’t favor the alternative of a boycott.
    I only took a superficial look, so i don’t doubt that there’re many americans here who could easily correct my mistakes if they want to

        • multitotal@lemmygrad.ml
          10·
          5 days ago

          It says those are expected vote totals for states where less than 97 percent of the vote has been counted. Trump is gonna end up with some 73.000.000 votes, while Kamala has 68.000.000 right now, Biden received 81.200.000 in 2020. That’s 14 million fewer votes overall than in 2020. That sounds to me like a lot of Dem voters didn’t show up.

          • soumerd_retardataire@lemmygrad.ml
            4·
            5 days ago

            It says those are expected vote totals for states where less than 97 percent of the vote has been counted

            We may have understood it the same way, yet just to be sure : The turnout is counted normally, except for states where less than 97% of the votes are counted, in which case the reported turnout has been replaced by the expected turnout.

            That sounds to me like a lot of Dem voters didn’t show up

            You’re right, if they didn’t voted for third parties, if the votes are mostly counted, if the voter turnout is the same, and if republicans didn’t received more votes than in 2020, then where did these 14M votes went ?
            Thanks for confirming that i’m missing something, don’t know if you or someone here have the explanation.

            • multitotal@lemmygrad.ml
              6·
              5 days ago

              Well, they haven’t counted all the votes yet, but it seems that 158.000.000 total votes were cast according to an analyst from UFL, who gets info from the bureau of elections or whatever. If Trump has 73M and Kamala has 68M votes, some 2.4M have voted third party. I guess that means there are still some 14.5 million votes to be counted.

              Which seems like a lot, doesn’t it? I don’t know what’s going on, perhaps we’re making some error somewhere.

              • soumerd_retardataire@lemmygrad.ml
                4·
                5 days ago

                And if they don’t have the same source, it confirms the WaPo’s 65% with its 64.52%(, in the VEP_TURNOUT_RATE column)

                we’re making some error somewhere

                Yeah, you’re right, it’s too obvious, anyone can do 72.6M+68M+2.2M and easily see that it’s only ~143M out of 158.5, so we’re indeed making an obvious mistake somewhere. They’re probably simply not counted yet, as you said(, California is slow here).

                • IHave69XiBucks@lemmygrad.ml
                  3·
                  5 days ago

                  While it is probably just that they werent counted yet can we atleast entertain the funniest outcome which is that after 4 years of yelling about how the election was stolen from him Trump actually stole the election, and hacked the voting machines or something? And a lot of the missing votes were fake? I just think it would be so funny I’d love to see how liberals reacted to that once its revealed. Like theyd probably just go “well shucks guess next time we wont let that happen”.

  • SpaceDogs@lemmygrad.ml
    34·
    6 days ago

    Well… dems on Twitter are salivating over a completely flattened Gaza as revenge for their loss. Very cool…

    • cfgaussian@lemmygrad.ml
      34·
      6 days ago

      Yup. Saw a few of them already saying they look forward to buying property in ethnically cleansed Gaza/West Bank.

      Also this:

      They really cannot keep their masks on can they?

      To them anti-fascism is just a vibe, and social justice causes just an aesthetic, a way to signal team loyalty. When push comes to shove and they get scratched, all of their feigned sympathy with the oppressed goes out the window and they become foaming at the mouth Nazis indistinguishable from MAGA.

      • l0tusc0bra@lemmygrad.mlEnglish
        11·
        6 days ago

        anti-fascism IS just a vibe to them but fascism itself is too, I would argue lol. According to them fascism is when you say mean things about minorities on twitter and complain about woke, definitely has nothing to do with imperial shrinkage and what happens when empires run out of gas. This cycle has taught me just how little the american voter gives a fuck about geopolitics. They themselves will often tell you with a smile how they only really care about domestic politics (AKA what they personally stand to gain from imperialism).

    • Muad'Dibber@lemmygrad.mlOPM
      21·
      6 days ago

      Their true-crime fetish spills over into fantasizing about endless brown people being bombed by their own country.

    • Addfwyn@lemmygrad.ml
      11·
      6 days ago

      Lots of pro-genocide, anti-immigrant and pro-natural disaster tweets suddenly coming out the woodwork from the supposed compassionate dems.

      • SpaceDogs@lemmygrad.ml
        10·
        6 days ago

        Same on TikTok. Leftist creators’ comments are being swarmed by Dems saying some incredibly morally repugnant shit. They will blame everyone but themselves.

    • ☭ Comrade Pup Ivy 🇨🇺@lemmygrad.ml
      13·
      6 days ago

      you act like this was not always going to be the response, there level of care was not that high anyway, they where willing to suport a canidate who told people who suported Gaza that now was not the time

    • JucheBot1988@lemmygrad.ml
      42·
      6 days ago

      You mean to say that –

      • switching candidates halfway through the election

      • having your replacement candidate be one of the few people somehow less popular than Biden

      • having said candidate go around openly endorsing genocide

      • telling leftists to ignore this, because genocide isn’t really a big deal

      – isn’t some kind of winning strategy to Unite the Left?

      • TonoManza@lemmygrad.mlEnglish
        18·
        6 days ago

        The funniest part is that

        • switching candidates halfway through the election
        • having your replacement candidate be one of the few people somehow less popular than Biden

        Isn’t a wholly accurate representation, as she surged after initially replacing Biden because she briefly represented “hope and change” …then she immediately threw all that momentum away to try and win over racist right wingers as a black woman.

      • Beat_da_Rich@lemmygrad.ml
        11·
        6 days ago

        Honestly, imo they lost the election before Gaza even entered the mainstream conversation. The Dems the past 4 years have exhibited nothing but betrayal after betrayal of their constituency. From record deportations of immigrants, to crushing labor strikes, to escalating the trade war with China, to deceiving the public about COVID relief, to bungled natural disaster responses, to lying about Biden’s obvious cognitive decline, etc.

        Gaza was just the nail in the coffin.

        • 矛⋅盾@lemmygrad.ml
          4·
          5 days ago

          can’t forget just completely dropping the ball on the most popular campaign promises (enshrining reproductive rights, student debt relief)

  • Absolute@lemmygrad.ml
    24·
    6 days ago

    I’ve done what I feel is a pretty good job ignoring US election (canadian here), but the liberal head loss over this I sadly cannot ignore. Otherwise reasonable people acting as if the world has ended when this man has already been president ? Some of the same people who agreed with me that KKKamala is not in any capacity a “harm reduction” vote acting as if martial law has just been declared or some shit ? Maybe I’m just the disagreeable asshole but I just find this behavior sad.

    Obviously fuck Trump should go without saying how pathetically shitty that dude is but I mean come on. Hundreds of thousands of Palestinians have been murdered and terminally wounded under the democrats, not trump. Roe v Wade was overturned under the democrats, not Trump. We have witnessed one of the most acute transfers of wealth to the ultra rich under the dems, not the republicans. The war in the Ukraine started and was goaded on under Biden’s admin, not Trump.

    I’m not trying to say in any sense that things will get a single iota better with republicans in office but I feel like I’m taking crazy pills seeing the reactions online and from people I would consider to be rational individuals. They might even be right that these things will get worse under another Trump admin more quickly or in different ways than if Kamala won, but still I find the reaction to it ridiculous.

    Not that any american needs to or should care about my opinion considering I’m relatively removed from the situation but like, am I being unempathetic or unreasonable ?

    • Hagels_Bagels@lemmygrad.ml
      10·
      6 days ago

      I don’t find your view unreasonable at all. Pro-Democrat people have always been crazy when it comes to losing the election to a Republican and Pro-Republican people have always been crazy when it comes to losing the election to a Democrat.

      The really substantial global events such as the Zionist Genocide against the Gaza Strip and the Russia-Ukraine war are more impactful than all the bickering between the 2 parties in the USA. State agencies make plans years in advance before carrying them out so that they can dedicate state resources towards those plans. If there were to be a candidate that caused major disruption to those plans then all efforts would be made to undermine their chance of coming to power.

      There’s only a change in rhetoric and framing of major events depending on who wins the election. I don’t live in the USA either but I remember feeling conflicted about how I would have voted were I to have lived there in 2020. Trump is outwardly a racist person who uses similar propaganda tactics as Hitler IMO. He feeds off of people’s anger, scapegoats minorities, creates a sense of ‘community’ among his supporters to make them feel emotionally invested in supporting him, uses ingroup/outgroup politics more heavily, and creates catchy labels to attack his enemies “sleepy Joe”, “crooked Hillary” etc.

      Whereas Kamala Harris and Democrats in general (like Obama) are just good at honing in on the most diplomatic language possible to invoke apathy towards all injustices perpetrated by the US government, its allies and corporations. And to be honest, with me I admit that it kind of works. I remember feeling much more passionate about awful shit in the USA when Trump was president compared to Biden. I can’t even imagine the rage I would have felt had Donald Trump justified the bombing of Al-Ahli Hospital by Israel compared to Biden doing the exact same thing.

      Which of the two is worse is impossible for me to say, and all Dems who admonish people for voting for Jill Stein and opposing Genocide, blaming them for some imaginary people bleeding out are total clowns. The election ended up being about whether you identify more with Elon Musk and Joe Rogan or with Beyoncé. It’s ok if you don’t fall into either camp.

    • Addfwyn@lemmygrad.ml
      13·
      6 days ago

      I had the same feeling. I am not going to bat for Trump now or even, man is a piece of shit, but he’s still a known quantity. They have had a Trump presidency before. It sucked sure, but I don’t know why people are acting like he is going to declare himself emperor day 1. He has been in office, we know exactly the type of policies he would be pursuing. A couple of which I could honestly see as being good things, albeit for the wrong reasons (like if Trump actually withdrew the US from NATO, not that I expect that to ever happen).

      Yet I see people seriously believing that he is going to round up all dissenters day 1 and declare martial law. ICE has been doing that already, for both flavours of administration.

    • l0tusc0bra@lemmygrad.mlEnglish
      9·
      6 days ago

      Yeah I’m in a similar space as a Canadian. Stayed relatively offline until a couple hours ago and now it’s official lol. I empathize with your growing sense of detachment from American politics and what helped me come to grips with that is recently is learning that America has the most frequent elections of any country in the whole world. It’s baked into their culture. They go through this cycle every 4 years like clockwork, as their constitution mandates.

      The reactions both before and after the 2016 one were EXACTLY like this. Same talking points, same willful ignorance of all the horrible bullshit the incumbent dem admin did like Biden blowing up Nordstream, helping complete the border wall, deliberately stalling/defusing 1/6 investigations, aiding and abetting the Palestinian genocide, stoking the Ukraine war, shrugging at all the SCOTUS rulings rather than just packing it like the GOP did…

      It’s just going to be so painful and cringe to see all their fantasies about muh concentration camps and cancelled elections not come true and see them do all of this AGAIN in 2028, probably with fucking Kumla again.

      I guess to get to your concern, if you’re being unempathetic than I definitely am too for whatever that is worth. I used to be willing to live and let live for americans who voted for whomever because I didn’t see meaningful difference and because I thought they were simply misled, but after being personally insulted and attacked and sneered at by Americans who tell you to butt out as a non-American when you stop toeing the DNC line, I kind of just said fuck 'em. I think they deliberately make the choice of “genocide over there vs over here” and dress it up with pride stickers and memes and twitter posts and Parks & Rec screenshots to make themselves feel better about only giving a shit about American lives. I’m just emotionally divesting from American politics and focusing on things that can actually help prepare me. It helps to remember that they do this every 2 goddamn years and it’s not the end of the world.

      • redtea@lemmygrad.ml
        4·
        5 days ago

        Not only do they do it every two years, they take a year to do it! It’s one year on, one year off. One year off is not enough time away from the tedium for the mind to recover.

          • l0tusc0bra@lemmygrad.mlEnglish
            3·
            4 days ago

            It’s 24/7 with them and has been for literally centuries. I’m just gonna start telling them that we international observers are just plain fuckin bored of this after watching the US government get away with murder every single day, year after year regardless of whose ass is sitting in the oval office signing off on all of it.

            Also, if they really truly believe that the Day of the Rope is going to come any day now then why do none of them ever own guns or organize or make any kind of plans beyond checking a box and threatening to go colonize move to other countries? It’s almost like deep down they know it’s all kafabe.

        • Muad'Dibber@lemmygrad.mlOPM
          20·
          6 days ago

          Hopefully, but IMO its irrelevant which party controls which branch of government. Nobody’s stopping the collapse train.

          Overall I like that murica’s international standing takes big respectability hits, and less countries are likely to go along with whatever imperialist venture they have.

        • Rondomi🏳️‍⚧️@lemmygrad.mlEnglish
          12·
          6 days ago

          That’s the thing, I’m not even sure if it will be faster than if the Dems got in because they’re historically more prone to warmongering, thus getting the Empire into unwinnable military wars rather than economic ones.

  • Valbrandur@lemmygrad.mlEnglish
    36·
    7 days ago

    You godless commies should have Pokémon Gone to the polls, now everyone will DIE and it is your fault.

  • StalinistSteve@lemmygrad.ml
    20·
    6 days ago

    This shit was so predictable lmao at least the victory lap will be less violent than the “stolen election” protests, America now has a more fitting face

  • KrupskayaPraxis@lemmygrad.ml
    30·
    6 days ago

    This election has proven that the fearmongering for the Greens by the Democrats was unfounded. The Greens won 0,7% of the vote in Michigan and the Dems there lost by more than a percent

    • 🏳️‍⚧️ 新星 [she/they]@lemmygrad.mlEnglish
      20·
      6 days ago

      Technically, it could also mean that people who didn’t want to vote for a major party abstained from the election altogether (e.g. why wait for an hour and a half if you think not voting at all would accomplish the same thing?)

      • cfgaussian@lemmygrad.ml
        13·
        6 days ago

        if you think not voting at all would accomplish the same thing

        It doesn’t achieve the same thing though. There are all sorts of narratives that can be made up about why people decided not to vote that the establishment can use to excuse its own horrific behavior. A vote for a third party is a much clearer message, and it helps said third parties build momentum, even if just on a local level.

        On the other hand, i won’t judge people who decided that not voting was the best way for them to protest, i live in Europe and voting is probably easier here, barely takes a couple minutes and we usually have polling stations within walking distance. Which is why personally i still go out and vote, not for a third party because here even the third, fourth and fifth parties are neoliberal warmonger Washington puppets, but for a party that i know will barely get a few thousand votes in my entire state, but at least is anti-imperialist, anti-capitalist and anti-genocide.

        It’s depressing but it is what it is and you have to start somewhere even if small. The most important work we do as communists happens between elections anyway. Elections in a bourgeois dictatorship are the sideshow of the sideshow. Organizing, agitating and educating is what we should be putting the majority of our effort into.

        • cfgaussian@lemmygrad.ml
          17·
          6 days ago

          Case in point:

          Now i’m not sure if this graphic is accurate, and i’ve seen other reports that put Stein around 20% in this district, but either way it’s a powerful message of what happens when your candidate unapologetically supports and enables a genocide. I wish we could have seen these kinds of results for third parties all across the US, but at least this is a start.

          • redtea@lemmygrad.ml
            5·
            6 days ago

            It’s hard to read that as anything other than, ‘if you had met us halfway, you’d have won by a large margin’.