• YashaB@lemmy.world
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    1 year ago

    There’s no alternative to a working public transport. Period.

    Ok bikes. 😁

    • Flying Squid@lemmy.world
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      1 year ago

      Bikes don’t work well in places like where I live when you can easily get 1-2 feet of snow in the winter. Or very icy roads. They definitely should be used more, but they aren’t a panacea.

      • FireRetardant@lemmy.world
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        1 year ago

        Some nations that experience harsh winters have well maintained bicycle infrastructure year round. Access to effecient, maintained, and safe bicycle infrastructure is the biggest factor preventing or enabling cycling.

        • Flying Squid@lemmy.world
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          1 year ago

          Biking in sub-zero temperatures when it isn’t even safe to be exposed outside for more than a few minutes (also happens here in the winter) is not a good idea either.

          Again, I am all about bikes. I think bikes should be widely adopted. I would also never ride one in winter conditions here no matter how well the infrastructure is maintained. Have you ever seen a road plowed after there’s been a huge snowfall? Keeping a bike lane clear is not especially reasonable an expectation for a snowplow.

            • Flying Squid@lemmy.world
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              1 year ago

              Skipping through the video, those look like roads dedicated to bicycles. Unless you repurpose an entire city to be bicycle only, which is a very unlikely scenario in most places in this world with harsh winters, that really doesn’t apply to the way snowplows usually work.

              • FireRetardant@lemmy.world
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                1 year ago

                “Roads dedicated to bicycles”

                What do you think good, safe and dedicated bicycle infrastructure looks like? Cars and bicycles has vastly different needs and therefore should have differently built roadways.

                When your city repaves its 4-6 lane roads, it has the choice to change some of those car lanes to bicycle/pedestrian/multiuse paths.

                • Flying Squid@lemmy.world
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                  1 year ago

                  How do you think you build a good, safe and dedicated bicycle infrastructure in a city which has not been designed for it? There are roads here, like the one where my office is, that only have one access route. How do even get the delivery trucks in if you make that only road bike-only? And if you say “just build another road,” who is going to pay for that?

                  Also, almost every road here has two lanes, one in each direction.

                  • uniqueid198x@lemmy.dbzer0.com
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                    1 year ago

                    No bike friendly city, and very few advocates for them, are suggesting to ban motor vehicles entirely. Rather, we can structure infrastrucrue to serve both, instead of just cars.

                    A 4 lane stroad can be turned into a two lane, limited access road with protected, separated bike lane and a median. This actually improves auto throughput, travel times, and emissions.

                    A 2 lane residential street can have restricted parking, narrower right of way, and wide rsidewalks. This naturally slows cars, making shared right of way safer for all.

                    A pedestrian zone can have moveable bollards, so that deliveries and mobility services can still access, whil keeping the street safe for people.

                    In all these cases, its not about bulldozing buildings, its about changing the way we use existing land.

                  • AdrianTheFrog@lemmy.world
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                    1 year ago

                    How do you think you build a good, safe and dedicated bicycle infrastructure in a city which has not been designed for it?

                    The Netherlands did it. Just change construction requirements/guidelines, zoning, etc, get some biking activists, and wait 50 years. All of these problems have already been solved.

                    And to answer your specific question, I think they normally close off roads to regular cars but let delivery vehicles go through. In the short amount of time the vehicle is there, people just bike/walk around it. And they also make smaller delivery vehicles, including branded cargo bikes for when the situation fits.

          • grue@lemmy.world
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            1 year ago

            Biking in sub-zero temperatures when it isn’t even safe to be exposed outside for more than a few minutes (also happens here in the winter) is not a good idea either.

            It’s funny how many of the same people making this sort of argument would happily go skiing in the exact same weather.

          • Khanzarate@lemmy.world
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            1 year ago

            Such a bike-only city just have to build heated underground tunnels for biking. If a New York subway style bike highway isn’t good enough., since wind chill and all that, instead build a city-wide roof over the first floor of all the buildings in the city to basically make that first floor a basement.

            This is obviously an extreme answer, but if a city wanted to be bike-only, the only barrier is cost.

            no city wants to do that, but they could. Stick Solar panels on the first floor roof and do the solar freaking roadways idea to heat up the tiles and avoid plowing (without needing to make them car-proof.)

            I got myself all excited, I wish this was more than a modern fantasy.

            • AdrianTheFrog@lemmy.world
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              1 year ago

              do the solar freaking roadways idea to heat up the tiles and avoid plowing (without needing to make them car-proof.)

              The problem with this idea is that melting snow takes a ridiculous amount of energy. (and also no one wants to feel banished underground)

              Again, these problems have already been solved. Compress the snow on bike paths, and make a reliable public transport system for when its really too cold.

              • grue@lemmy.world
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                1 year ago

                Bike lanes cost less than car lanes. Bike-path-sized snowplows probably cost less than car-lane-sized ones, too.

                Bike infrastructure only seems unaffordable for those who dishonestly see it as an add-on on top of car infrastructure, rather than correctly as a replacement for (some of) it.

                • Cryophilia@lemmy.world
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                  1 year ago

                  Bike infrastructure only seems unaffordable for those who dishonestly see it as an add-on on top of car infrastructure, rather than correctly as a replacement for (some of) it.

                  Well sure, bike infrastructure is cheap if you take a road for cars, ban all cars, and declare it bike only.

                  But that’s so ridiculous it’s not worth mentioning.

      • Funderpants @lemmy.ca
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        1 year ago

        My family lives in a rural town of 1600, my wife works 800m from home and I commute 50km to the nearest city for work. Most days she walks to work for 7:30 or takes the ebike. I take our EV to arrive at 9am. My daughter takes the school bus , which arrives at my home at 8:17am.

        There is a bus that comes to my town and goes to the city each day at 7AM and 8AM. Unfortunately, I cannot take the bus, or I would have to leave my daughter unattended. I don’t think I need to explain why taking my bike 120km a day round trip by the bike path won’t work.

        By taking the EV, I make my life work and I save a good amount of CO2 in the process. My old hatchback would have burned 7.7l fuel to make the commute , or 7.7 * 19.6 lbs CO2 = 150lb CO2 per day. My EV gets 16kwh/100km generating between 3/4 lb and 5lb CO2 for the trip, based on local energy mix.

        • Flying Squid@lemmy.world
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          1 year ago

          I think a mixture is the real solution. Public transport and human-powered transport such as bicycles should be encouraged as much as possible, but they cannot apply to every scenario. I have to drive about 10 miles down a 4-lane highway to an industrial park whose only access is that highway. Both my home and that industrial park are outside city limits. The nearest bus to me is 2 miles away and goes the opposite direction. Even with robust public transport in this area, it wouldn’t be economically justifiable to get a bus to go from anywhere near my semi-rural subdivision to that industrial park. Not enough people would ride that bus and it wouldn’t be safe to ride a bicycle there.

          So I’m a case where I have to drive a car. I don’t like it. I wish I had another option. I would never drive again if I could, but right now I drive a car and the most eco-friendly car I could afford, which was a used Prius.

          So people in this community can berate me if they want, but I’m pretty much out of options unless I do something drastic like quit my job and move. And “quit your job and move so you don’t need a car anymore” is not advice anyone should take. Maybe one day, I will be able to do that. I rode public transport all the time when I lived by the train in L.A. and I loved it. But I don’t live in L.A. anymore, I live in a small city in Indiana where public transport throughout the county, which is mostly farms outside city limits, is just not viable.

        • Kecessa@sh.itjust.works
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          1 year ago

          Your situation doesn’t reflect the majority’s situation, that’s what people need to understand, with better public transport it’s a very small minority that needs a car.

            • Kecessa@sh.itjust.works
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              1 year ago

              In a way it does, if cars didn’t exist you would have found work closer to home and your environmental impact would be lower. Your situation exist because cars allow it to.

              • grue@lemmy.world
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                1 year ago

                That’s a bad way to phrase it because it frames cars as technological innovation providing a benefit.

                The reality, and the best way to phrase it, is different: his situation exists because massive government subsidies for car infrastructure allows it to. He’s not an enjoyer of modern convenience; he’s a welfare queen.

              • RaoulDook@lemmy.world
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                1 year ago

                Thank god it’s not like that because I have a great job and a great life that was enabled by the freedom that my cars have given me. Y’all can get rid of your cars but I will always have one regardless of the law or society’s opinion. I’d build my own fucking car if you couldn’t buy one even.

            • sky@codesink.io
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              1 year ago

              Good thing memes don’t have to account for every individuals experience in the world huh

              • Funderpants @lemmy.ca
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                1 year ago

                The meme makes a blanket statement forgetting about a big swath of rural people, falsely claiming that EVs don’t address climate change when the cold fact is that EVs do represent a way for people like me to contribute to the solution. A meme like this deserves a reminder like mine.

                • sky@codesink.io
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                  1 year ago

                  Or you could simply remember that it’s just a meme and stop getting so worked up!

                  Signed, A rural EV owner

                  • Funderpants @lemmy.ca
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                    1 year ago

                    Or, I could make a small post so that one of our rural neighbours, driving an SUV, doesn’t read “EVs don’t solve climate change” and think to themselves “Hey, that’s true, may as well continue on with my SUV”.

          • Cryophilia@lemmy.world
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            1 year ago

            Your situation doesn’t reflect the majority’s situation

            In America this is an extremely common situation. Public transit is abysmal here. We need to build that up before we start removing car infrastructure.

      • Ganbat@lemmyonline.com
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        1 year ago

        They also don’t work well in places like I live, where we reach 120°F for about one to one-and-a-half months of the year.

      • Humanius@lemmy.world
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        1 year ago

        Neither do cars work well in those conditions.
        If you clear and salt the bike paths in a timely manner, like we also expect for other roads, then bikes are a perfectly viable option even in winter.

        • Flying Squid@lemmy.world
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          1 year ago

          Weird, because mine works just fine. Also, salt is incredibly ecologically damaging. Never use salt because roads are snowy or icy.

        • Rodeo@lemmy.ca
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          1 year ago

          Car work a lot better than bikes in the snow lol

          Twice as many wheels probably means more traction, eh? I can quite safely drive through 20cm of fresh snow. Good luck biking in that.

      • ezchili@iusearchlinux.fyi
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        1 year ago

        We’ve invented means to clear roads of snow, that’s how we manage to make cars go on them during winter

      • HardlightCereal@lemmy.world
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        1 year ago

        Oslo, Norway, is a great cycling city and all the kids ride their bikes to school in the winter. In Norway.

      • grue@lemmy.world
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        1 year ago

        Bikes don’t work well in places like where I live when you can easily get 1-2 feet of snow in the winter.

        Neither do cars, unless the streets are plowed. And guess what could be done to bike lanes too, if the government in question gave a shit?

    • Gork@lemm.ee
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      1 year ago

      eVTOL craft? Basically flying dronecopters that can carry people in it. Closest we’ll get to flying cars in our lifetime.