This isnā€™t atypical, professors email their students a lot and I personally donā€™t have a problem with it. The reason why Iā€™m writing here is because of the contents of said email. Donā€™t worry, itā€™s nothing illegal.

Some of you might remember me writing about a library display where some of the posters had the OUN flag. I went to two of my professors about it (history and political science) to see if they knew anything about the display itself and the flag. To make a long story short the answers I got were disappointing, they didnā€™t know anything. I went the slightest extra mile with my history professor as he actually looked up what the flag was during our meeting. I went to him the next day to push a bit more on how it might be inappropriate to display neo-Nazi images in our school. I donā€™t want to go over every detail but if you are new and want to know everything or just need a refresher here are the posts: Part 1 and Part 2

So, resuming after that, it has clearly been a little while since Iā€™ve had this conversation with my history professor and I honestly thought this would be the end of such a shitty saga, but yesterday he emailed me about it. At the end of our last meeting he claimed he wasnā€™t an expert on Ukraine so he is not the best authority to be asking, I brought up Ivan Katchanovski as an authority saying maybe Iā€™d just read his works. He was unfamiliar with Dr. Katchanovksi so I spelled out his name as my professor seemed curious (he even wrote it down) and in turn he told me to look into Timothy Snyder. Our chat ended there and I thought that was it, but it wasnā€™t.

When I looked at my school email yesterday I saw one from him (special notifications for my professors so I donā€™t miss anything important) and the subject line referenced Katchanovski and the red and black flag. I wont write the email verbatim but i will do my best to give an accurate retelling:

ā€œHello SpaceDogs,

Because of our last office hours together when you brought up issues about the red and black flag and Ivan Katchanovski, I wanted to take them to the head of the Ukrainian ā€œclub.ā€ I made sure not to out your name or class so you can be certain none of this will connect back to you. I directly pasted his thoughts below, and because I am not an expert on this topic I cannot help much but I encourage you to read far and wide and critically. Context is important. Scholars like William Risch have issues with Katchanovskiā€™s arguments. Of course, we should listen to fringe ideas, but one must be careful with them and consider differing perspectives.

Regards,

Professorā€

So Katchanvoski is fringe, huh? Well, as you can see this isnā€™t the greatest start and I was honestly shocked when I saw this email in my inbox, I donā€™t remember ever alluding to wanting him to investigate for me, but I guess my pathetic attitude made him pity me. I will be honest, when I read the subject line I was a little excited, thinking he had contacted Katchanovski for me, but when I read the full email I saw that wasnā€™t the case.

I am sure you are all curious about what the head of the ā€œclubā€ said. Again, I cannot write verbatim but I will summarize:

The head of the club has many issues with Katchanovksiā€™s perspective. He claims that Katchanovksi is very in line with the Russian governmentā€™s narrative and those on the academic left are eating it up. He (the head of the club) rejects both the idea that Ukraine is a proxy for NATO and that the US planned the Maidan coup. He says Katchanovskiā€™s sniper argument is interesting. But he has many issues with all of this stuff. He cites William Rischā€™s critique of Katchanovski and links it: https://commons.com.ua/en/rozstrili-na-majdani/

for a shorter piece he gives this one: https://kyivindependent.com/euromaidan-murders-case-why-is-the-verdict-criticized-and-why-is-it-about-russia/

This next part is difficult for me to write but he goes on to compliment Rischā€™s piece as it acknowledges that the whole ordeal was very complicated and messy, he even makes a little comment about Katchanovski making a big deal over one supposed sniper. Some state actors and academics are taking advantage of the situation to form their own narratives.

He asserts that other things Katchanovski has written about are completely wrong, especially when it comes to the Donbas: it wasnā€™t a civil war, they were Russian backed separatists who had so little public support that they only gained ground after Russian soldier boots hit the ground. He cites Serhy Yekelchyk for the Russian troops in Crimea and other parts of eastern Ukraine. There is no incident of Ukrainians ever wanting to separate and join Russia. He says it is more similar to Quebec and Albertaā€™s issues with the Canadian feds. There is a right wing presence in Ukraine but it is not that pervasive, especially not in the military and government. There are more far right wingers in Western Europe and North American than in Ukraine.

About the flag, he links this article: https://kyivindependent.com/everything-you-didnt-know-about-ukraines-flag/

He summarizes the article, how back then it had nothing to do with fascism and was more about resistance. Resistance to who? Itā€™s not clear as it was the 12th century and both Russian and Ukraine did not exist. It is correct that the UPA uses the flag, it is not intended to be fascist, although some divisions did fight alongside the Nazis. But they only did that because they wanted to be free from the Soviets (he then brings up the holodomor as a reason why). But they eventually turned away from the Nazis as they saw that they (Nazis) didnā€™t actually care about Ukraine. He doesnt know about any anti-Semitism from the group but cites Snyderā€™s Bloodlands as a piece to read. Some of the UPA were in line with the fascists but that did not last. Even with such a messy history it is safe to assume that those who wear the flag do not align with fascists and just want to express Ukrainian resistance to imperialism (which it has a long history of fighting against).

Thatā€™s it. Thatā€™s the email.

Iā€™m going to be completely honest with you all, this was the catalyst for me. This is what finally did me in and caused me to break down. I havenā€™t cried in so long but this is what did it. I couldnā€™t hold it in anymore and just let the tears and sobs out.

I know I sound pathetic and a passerby liberal or conservative will read this and look down on me, call me a psychotic tankie who canā€™t handle the truth. I get it, I do. But this moment just cemented the fact that I am in a horrible institution and am truly alone.

Iā€™m fringe, just like Katchanovski, and I have no one else here like me.

I donā€™t know why he would email me this. He had good intentions, I know, but god does it suck. I thought our conversation was done. I knew I was alone and I was the only person i could ever rely on, but this just for some reason made it worse. This is so much more than an uphill battle for me, Iā€™m practically scaling a steep cliff.

Rest assured I did not respond, and from what I can tell he sent it after our class. I wonder if he noticed how off Iā€™ve been this week. Who knowsā€¦

The last thing Iā€™ll do is drop out, so donā€™t worry about that, but this has just gotten a lot more complicatedā€¦

  • CriticalResist8@lemmygrad.ml
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    From the Kyiv ā€œIndependentā€ (pro-Zelensky handpicked people) article:

    ā€œThe people who are waving them are the people who identify with the tradition of militant Ukrainian nationalism. They respect the fact that the OUN and UPA took up arms in the struggle for Ukrainian independence,ā€ Balan told CBC News.

    Case closed.

  • darkcalling@lemmygrad.ml
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    You live in a land with a history of acceptance and lionization of Ukrainian Nazi collaborators who fled there after WW2, they have erected memorials, they showed their Nazi tattoos and insignias to Canadian immigration to prove they were not communists. This didnā€™t start with the current crisis in 2014, itā€™s been going on for decades and is so deep they invited a literal WW2 Nazi war criminal to their parliament to celebrate him and the only consequence was a speaker stepping down after the media backlash from the Jewish community was so intense they couldnā€™t ignore it. Thatā€™s the place you exist.

    This was never going to end with the school siding with you, with the liberal professions denouncing their nation as being complicit in that messy history to this day and to repudiate the current Ukraine regime for being part of that long legacy. Nor were they going to accept the idea of NATO color revolutions, coups, and so on despite western admissions of massive amounts of CIA bases in that country they will claim that oh those CIA were just invited there to stop Russia and so on and so forth.

    I think it honestly pointless to push back on liberal academics on something like this which is an active hot button topic with intense emotional propaganda and in Canada Iā€™d say pushing back on Ukrainian Nazism in general at any point given the countryā€™s history with that is less likely to bear fruit than say if youā€™d done it in the US in 2012 or do so in 2030 when this is over. Canada is complicit, it has been complicit, itā€™s unadmitted, and not something theyā€™re going to ever want to admit so theyā€™ll of course jump to accept whatever lies or deflections are offered by Ukrainians.

    One in a thousand professors maybe would agree with your point privately but then say that it was a sensitive subject and itā€™s best not to discuss it further because they donā€™t want the massive media hate and propaganda machine turning on them, they donā€™t want Nazis putting them on their kill list or the admin painting a target on their back. The rest are going to react like this and some small amount of reactionary anti-communists or deranged pro-Ukraine liberals who are losing it at Ukraine losing it, much worse might privately report you to the administration and/or leak your name to these Ukrainian fascist groups on campus. I doubt the ones you contacted are going to do that.

    So Iā€™d just accept it. Swallow any pride you might have on the matter and accept thereā€™s so much more to life than this nonsense. Accept what liberal academia is and its limits, silo that problem off, ignore the Nazi symbols on campus. Focus on your degree, extracurricular stuff you enjoy, your social life and reading theory. Stay strong comrade.

  • å°čŽ±å”@lemmygrad.ml
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    2 books that i recommend reading on the Holomodor and soviet ukraine: Fraud, famine and Fascism by Douglas Tottle to debunk the holomodor narrative, and the national question by Stalin to debunk the ā€œsoviets oppressed ukraineā€ stupidity.

    Ukraine culture flourished during the ussr era thanks to the policies outlined in the national question that precisely pushed for nation building through support for own language, regional traditions, developing economic links in the region, etcā€¦ Even damn Putin constantly rants that it was Leninā€™s fault that Ukraine is a nation ffs, the ukranian nationalists hated the soviets not because of oppresion but because of racism towards the russians and other ethnic groups.

    Anyways id avoid talking to him because he is most definitely a cryptofascist, damn canada is full of those.

  • GarbageShoot [he/him]@hexbear.net
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    it wasnā€™t a civil war, they were Russian backed separatists

    i.e. Ukrainians, therefore engaging in a civil war

    who had so little public support that they only gained ground after Russian soldier boots hit the ground

    They werenā€™t trying to ā€œgain groundā€, they were trying to separate the ground they had from Ukraine! Why would a minority in Ukraine seek to totally defeat the Ukrainian military like Russia is doing? That would be suicide to attempt. This dude is a fucking rube.

    There is a right wing presence in Ukraine but it is not that pervasive, especially not in the military and government.

    Citation fucking needed that Azov does not represent a pervasive issue, or that Holocaust-denying ambassadors donā€™t. This fucker can only make a claim like this by rewriting history to claim banderites were progressive and then on top of that ignoring the Nazi iconography and actual hate crimes and war crimes committed against other ethnicities. Worthless perspective.

    The Red and Black flag is literally ā€œblood and soilā€, this isnā€™t hard. Jesus . . .

    These arguments are so bad they refute themselves. Unfortunately, that doesnā€™t help you all that much since heā€™s dumb enough to assert them. This guy reminds me of some other well-meaning de facto liberal historians Iā€™ve known. Youā€™re better off trying to find solidarity with students than professors most of the time, unless you can find the odd immigrant or someone whose lived experience encourages them to take a perspective more like yours. It sucks, but you can probably find at least one or two allies.

    Even if everyone at your school does suck, remember that you arenā€™t alone and you arenā€™t crazy. Being ā€œfringeā€ is to be expected of decent and informed people when the status quo is monstrous, and in fact Iā€™d say itā€™s necessary.

    • SpaceDogs@lemmygrad.mlOP
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      I may have screwed up in my summarizing of the statement. When I wrote ā€œgain groundā€ I meant gain support., thatā€™s my bad for doing a terrible job of paraphrasing. What he said in the statement was ā€œ[the separatists] were flailing and had comparatively little public backing until Russian troops moved in to support them in 2014.ā€ Thatā€™s my bad but I donā€™t know if what he actually said helps his case.

      With regards to finding solace in my fellow students, I donā€™t think thatā€™s going to happen any time soon. So far everyone in my classes follows a similar line of thinking, even when one girl (who is an immigrant from Latin America) criticized Hannah Arendtā€™s ā€œbanality of evilā€ piece we had to read for our holocaust week, in another class she doesnā€™t pull any punched against the Soviets (essentially equating them to Nazis in how they treated the Polish). Maybe future courses will be better but I wonā€™t hold my breath.

      • GarbageShoot [he/him]@hexbear.net
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        I may have screwed up in my summarizing of the statement. When I wrote ā€œgain groundā€ I meant gain support., thatā€™s my bad for doing a terrible job of paraphrasing. What he said in the statement was ā€œ[the separatists] were flailing and had comparatively little public backing until Russian troops moved in to support them in 2014.ā€ Thatā€™s my bad but I donā€™t know if what he actually said helps his case.

        Then itā€™s just a [citation needed] issue since they did just fine on the referendums that neoliberals reject out of hand, the Azovites still saw fit to butcher thousands, and the East is consistently interested in a conciliatory stance towards Russia. Itā€™s still a weak argument. What happened? The public only gained enough confidence in them once they got the direct support of one of the larger militaries in the world? Is that an own somehow? Anyone would gain more public confidence when they went from being shelled to shit to actually winning because Russia put its whole fist on the scale.

        With regards to finding solace in my fellow students, I donā€™t think thatā€™s going to happen any time soon. So far everyone in my classes follows a similar line of thinking, even when one girl (who is an immigrant from Latin America) criticized Hannah Arendtā€™s ā€œbanality of evilā€ piece we had to read for our holocaust week, in another class she doesnā€™t pull any punched against the Soviets (essentially equating them to Nazis in how they treated the Polish). Maybe future courses will be better but I wonā€™t hold my breath.

        Some people are much easier to disabuse of their shit than professors. Even the person you mention here might be able to be dissuaded. I once dissuaded a student who said ā€œUkrainians greeted the Nazis as liberatorsā€ in a single conversation after class. Itā€™s just a matter of certain stories being normalized and never challenged, but often students are much less attached to specific positions than academics are. If someone takes a rhetorically flimsy point but you donā€™t feel up to fighting it during class, consider just approaching them after class and just expressing concern. Avoid being mad or confrontational even if you are frustrated and speak to them like theyā€™re a fellow human who is also doing their best but may have been let down by people they trusted to guide them on the right path.

        Also consider that there may be people (perhaps like yourself) who donā€™t agree but just donā€™t speak up. Sometimes you need to look for more subtle tells than someone shouting in the middle of class ā€œThe Maoist peasant uprising against landlords was the most successful and comprehensive land reform in history . . .ā€ etc.

        • starkillerfish (she)@lemmygrad.ml
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          Also consider that there may be people (perhaps like yourself) who donā€™t agree but just donā€™t speak up.

          My thoughts exactly. I donā€™t think you are going to find people who walk around with a red star pin on campus (I do but im a weirdo), but @[email protected] can definitely find people who are more sympathetic to socialist ideas. I find anti-imperialism to be a very good topic for that for instance. Maybe iā€™m optimistic about Canada but Iā€™ve met socialists in the most conservative areas of the US, so anything is possible.

          • SpaceDogs@lemmygrad.mlOP
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            What sucks is that people the who call themselves anti-imperialist seem to have a skewed definition of what imperialism is. I donā€™t want to write off every single person, professor or student, but itā€™s difficult to sustain hope as when I think Iā€™ve found a peer that goes out the window the next sentence they say. Iā€™ll keep an open mind but not so much Iā€™ll end up disappointing myself, if that makes sense.

            • starkillerfish (she)@lemmygrad.ml
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              Yeah I get that. People who consume western media often have skewed views of the world/imperialism (I did too at some point). But I do think that right now itā€™s easier than ever to point out westā€™s hypocrisy.

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                I sound like a huge pessimist and a downer, but I will keep my mind and heart open. It would be nice to have allies but if I have to go at it alone I will.

  • Anarcho-Bolshevik@lemmygrad.ml
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    Honestly, I probably would have just groaned rather than cried upon reading that email, because itā€™s so typical of how antisocialists mishandle serious accusations: finding a couple of ā€˜issuesā€™ with the accusation and then shutting the case as soon as possible, never worrying about it again. Putting more than a marginal effort into researching this would quickly reveal that finding examples of the OUNā€™s xenophobic violence is easy. Has your professor ever heard of Grzegorz Rossolińskiā€Liebe?

    https://www.cambridge.org/core/services/aop-cambridge-core/content/view/16E526E005BCAD7A8B34D15EE3D243DA/S0269889719000048a.pdf/eugenics-and-racial-anthropology-in-the-ukrainian-radical-nationalist-tradition.pdf

    https://sci-hub.ru/10.1080/00905992.2011.570327

    https://libgen.rs/book/index.php?md5=C449CEBBF426E7765A5BDA8BA8E96731

    https://carlbeckpapers.pitt.edu/ojs/index.php/cbp/article/download/164/160

    Timothy Snyder

    Ooooof, Gā€dā€¦ I swear, that historiaster has laid waste to the field of WWII studies.

    I would recommend reading Blood Lies as a refutation, but I am sure that most antisocialists would dismiss it out of hand saying that Grover Furr isnā€™t a real scholar, so I donā€™t see the point in recommending it to them. While Iā€™ll be the first to admit that I do have certainā€¦ problems with Furr, I think that in this case most of his sources would stand up to peer review. Good luck trying to convince one antisocialist to read it with an open mind, though.

    • SpaceDogs@lemmygrad.mlOP
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      Honestly, I probably would have just groaned rather than cried upon reading that email

      You are much stronger than me, but then again I am a very sensitive person, I have been my whole life. Hopefully one day I can have the same reaction as you. I think being incredibly sleep deprived (pulled two all-nighters in a row to finish a paper) made it easer to break me down. I think I also just got protective over Katchanovski too even though heā€™s a grown man who can defend himself just fine, Iā€™m sure he knows about what certain people think of him and it doesnā€™t bother him, but him being called fringe hit me personally because I guess I am too. It also cuts that this is all coming from two authority figures, two people (probably more) that can do so much and I canā€™t. It just proved to me that I am unsafe no matter where I go in this school.

      Ooooof, Gā€dā€¦ I swear, that historiaster has laid waste to the field of WWII studies.

      My professor seems to be a big fan of Timothy Snyder, and I guess the Head of the Ukrainian ā€œclubā€ is too considering they both mention him as an authority. My professor told me to look into Snyder during our meeting, he references him in our class about the holodomor (this was on Wednesday) and he gets mentioned again by the Ukrainian ā€œclubā€ leader. People seem very attached to him. I do have Grover Furrā€™s book but I havenā€™t had the time to read it, but I might have to soon.

      Thank you for linking so many sources, Iā€™ll try to get through them too.

      • Kultronx@lemmygrad.ml
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        I would hesitate bringing up Furr, they will assuredly label you a tankie and likely irrationally discriminate against you.

        • SpaceDogs@lemmygrad.mlOP
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          I definitely wonā€™t bring him up, Iā€™ll just read him on my own time. Iā€™m already in a precarious situation and donā€™t want to rock the boat anymore than I already have. My history paper might be the tipping point but Iā€™ll at least be done with the semester by then.

  • As a fellow Canadian- youā€™re fringe, within this shithole settler-colonial country, and within a presumably very liberal institution at that.

    The majority of humanity stands with us, whether for the right reasons or not. The mentality your professor represents will ultimately be a self-defeating one, as this country increasingly goes to shit and the world rises and liberates itself from western ā€œcivilizationā€ in turn. From west Africa, to India, to China, and increasingly in the west and around the world, people are cheering on Russia, cheering on the anti-imperialist, multipolar movement and axis of resistance- for right reasons or misguided (but still convenient) ones. Humanity will win, no matter the cost. The liberal, imperialist ideology is the global fringe- and when it is over, it will be but a smear on history, one hopefully treated like ISIS, like the Nazis, one which will hopefully never know a second of peace till each adherent is reeducated or in a coffin.

    Hopefully in time youā€™ll be able to step out of this shithole. Thatā€™s my hope for myself as well. The world is full of humanity, hell, even the west is full of silenced humanity for all that its elites and institutions wholly lack any sense of it.

  • CicadaSpectre@lemmygrad.ml
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    I had several catalysts while earning my BA in History. Itā€™s a sick joke, and if you cry foul, they hold you in the same regard as Holocaust deniers or anti-vaxxers because youā€™re ā€œfringeā€.

    Theyā€™re half-aware of the double-standard, too. My professors talked a lot about the dubious nature of sources, and how much of modern historiography amounts to reinterpreting the available evidence to challenge narratives, and how much academia requires funding for research and catering to your sponsors.

    My favorite professor told me you wouldnā€™t find any ā€œStalin apologistsā€ in academia today. He, and others, all astonished (and horrified) me once. We got to do this trip to Italy, and I mentioned an interest in seeing Roma culture. The prof leading the trip (an American, mind you) called them the g-word and said theyā€™re all thieves. When I brought it up to my other history professors, all Americans, they agreed.

    The foundations are rotten. The body of ā€œexpertsā€ is intentionally stacked to control the narrative. If you somehow get into a level of status and respect in the humanities, it will be through omission or deception. And if you ever speak against the narrative in regards to communism, you will be destroyed. Want to humanize Nazis or explain away responsibility for their actions? Youā€™re free to do that. Want to point out the inconsistency of anticommunist fables? You wonā€™t even be allowed to operate on the fringes. Even climate change deniers and anti-vaxxers will have more status than you.

    I wish I had any helpful advice.

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    Like others have said, your professor is a doofus. Contrary to what right-wing media says, comrades basically must assume that anyone involved in higher education in the west (or really any citizen in the west tbh) is a reactionary, whether they be liberal or fascist until proven otherwise.

    • SpaceDogs@lemmygrad.mlOP
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      It honestly does boggle my mind when conservatives complain about ā€œMarxismā€ is academia and how they have to pretend to be liberals when studying. Hereā€™s the thing about that, theyā€™re more accepted than any communist and the only problems they will face as conservatives is push back against their racism and transphobia (and antivaxx sentiments), if they drop those attitudes then theyā€™ll get by easily.

      My political science professor told me that I would do well in academia because Marxism is very accepted, but he was so so wrongā€¦

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        Bourgeois Marxism is accepted. But only if you strip out all the radicalism, dunk on AES, and use it as a framework to make impotent ā€˜intellectualā€™ critiques like all the ā€˜Marxistā€™ psychoanalysts. Basically you can freely be Zizek. The few real Marxists struggle and get disparaged every step of the way. Maybe it depends on the field. There is some hope, though, so donā€™t be put off!

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          Adding to this:

          For many years Parenti taught political and social science at various institutions of higher learning. His most prominent academic position was at the University of Vermont where he taught from 1970 to 1972. During his time there he was one of the most published and well known scholars on campus, in part due to his active role in on and off campus activities against the Vietnam War. At the end of his two year contract the faculty voted to extend his position, but their decision was directly overturned by the Universityā€™s Board of Trustees. The trustees alleged that Parenti had violated the Universityā€™s professional conduct policy, citing as evidence his ā€œanti-businessā€ attitudes and not saying the pledge of allegiance when he was invited to speak at the Burlington Rotary Club.

          This is taken from a previous version of Parentiā€™s wikipedia page. I was trying to find it just now, and realized that a lot of stuff has been removed for referencing primary sources (lol, lmao even)

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    So many liberals will say Marxism/leftism is fringe in order to discredit it. I mean thatā€™s how they get you, by making you feel alone and powerless! Donā€™t buy into that and keep your chin up!!! care

  • anarchoilluminati [comrade/them]@hexbear.net
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    Take a breather and a rest for a while, as youā€™re doing.

    Truth is that weā€™re all alone. We are up against the hegemonic order, that means our ideas, opinions, and being wonā€™t belong in most places. This is part of that for you and youā€™re going to meet people with power over you who you will profoundly disagree with for the rest of your life.

    That being said, youā€™re not alone in that experience.

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    The kyiv independent article that you were linked doesnā€™t even deny that the red and black flag was used by Nazis??? It even admits that Nazi Ukrainians killed thousands of Poles??? How TF is that convincing anyone who isnā€™t already a Nazi

    It would have been better for your professor to have said nothing at all goddamnā€¦

    In a just world, showing such support for Nazis intentional or otherwise would get your teaching credentials revoked, at minimum.

    You are justified in feeling this way. Donā€™t let up, we will carry on the fight against fascism together šŸ’ŖšŸ’š

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      8 months ago

      I really wish he hadnā€™t said anything because now I feel even more unsafe. I confided in him before telling him that I felt unsafe and like a walking contradiction in this school (stupid of me, I know), and he said that its a shame fringe ideas arenā€™t accepted here since a university should be a place that fosters free speech. He even promised that heā€™d defend me if I ever spoke up in class and got dogpiled. Looks like that was a lie. Sure, Iā€™ve never spoken up in class with something that would require him to defend me, but why would I when I was emailed with this shit? Now Iā€™m more isolated and fearful than ever before, I donā€™t know if that was his intent, maybe he was genuinely trying to help, but it clearly backfired. He really fucked me over.

      Iā€™m glad Iā€™m not crazy for reacting the way I did, because at the time I truly felt like I was. But thats what gaslighting is, I guess.

      • Water Bowl Slime@lemmygrad.ml
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        8 months ago

        I donā€™t think itā€™s helpful for him to keep calling your perspective ā€œfringeā€ either, as if an accurate understanding of the world is fanatical.

        Though I do wonder what heā€™d respond to a student that sent him Nazi apologia - would he push back against them too? Would he even recognize it as Nazi apologia at all? Surely he must be getting some because his class dedicates a week to the ā€œholodomor genocideā€. Considering that, I wouldnā€™t hold what he says in high regard on anything related to Ukraine, the USSR or communism in general. Why keep listening to someone who has proven their ignorance yā€™know?

        Youā€™re not crazy! Western countries rely on nonstop gaslighting to function really.

  • Jennie@lemmygrad.ml
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    8 months ago

    Your professor is a loser but itā€™s not surprising unfortunately. I am assuming that youā€™re a university student and most of those places are lib hellholes.

    • SpaceDogs@lemmygrad.mlOP
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      8 months ago

      Yes, Iā€™m a university student. I knew before hand that I was going into a very liberal institution (I would say most Canadian schools are like that) but I honestly didnā€™t think it would be this bad. My political science teacher told me that Marxists do very well in academia so my ideas and whatnot will not be unacceptable. But it seems like heā€™s wrong for this specific school as not only are professors like this, but so are the higher ups. The statement he copied and pasted from the head of the Ukrainian ā€œclubā€ (it is much more official than a club but Iā€™m being careful with words) just proves this goes much further. So far it seems all the decent professors live elsewhere and Iā€™m stuck with cryptofascistsā€¦

  • redtea@lemmygrad.ml
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    8 months ago

    There is a right wing presence in Ukraine but it is not that pervasive, especially not in the military and government. ā€¦ He doesnt know about any anti-Semitism from the [UPA] but ā€¦

    Proceeds to (1) say something antisemitic, in two different ways, just in case you missed it the first time (2) apologise for nazis and nazi colaborators (3) explain why one and two are justified (4) appeals to ancestors of 800 years ago (because thatā€™s not a nazi thing, is it? Do they also have a taste for runes?) (5) explain why itā€™s okay that all this is ā€˜mainstreamā€™ in Ukraine and doesnā€™t indicate a right-tendency (6) complains about left wing academics, as if thatā€™s not par for the course for someone who downplays the right in general and nazis in particular.

    I can see why youā€™re upset, comrade. Sorry you have to go through this gas lighting.

    As @[email protected] said, youā€™re likely dealing with at least one cryptofascist.

    Unfortunately, you were always going to have an experience like this. Itā€™s a foregone conclusion for anyone who steps to the left of the liberal-colonialist-imperialist-fascist worldview. You can find solace in a few others from the global north and many others in the global south. Just know that you stand with the masses, billions of the masses, who will be delighted to hear that you are willing merely to accept their suffering as a fact; itā€™s validating.

    Fortunately, your current feeling of alienation will pass. You will be able to steel yourself as @[email protected] and I and many others have had to do. Look after yourself. Rest. Keep reading. Read everything critically but inoculate yourself from shit takes and brainworm-inviting arguments by, at times, only reading ML or other Marxist texts. Such works are like a tonic for me. They remind me that Iā€™m not losing my mind, that my eyes and ears do not, in fact, deceive me. Marxist theory can a better form of escapism than fiction.

    A couple of Marxist-adjacent people who may be near you or who may have ā€˜followersā€™ near you are perhaps J Maufawad-Paul and Brenna Bhandar. If you find others in Canada who like their work, you may find yourself in good company. You could always get involved with the First Nations, too, and become a vocal advocate ā€“ reactionaries and critics will have a tough time gas lighting you for that without being obviously racist dickheads.

    • SpaceDogs@lemmygrad.mlOP
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      8 months ago

      I can see why youā€™re upset, comrade. Sorry you have to go through this gas lighting.

      Thatā€™s literally what this is, isnā€™t it? Gaslighting. Iā€™ve never been gaslit before so I didnā€™t know what it felt like. Itā€™s horrible. I really did question if I was crazy. If two authority figures are saying I am, maybe itā€™s true. Itā€™s not, of course, but I went through those feelings of questioning my sanity. Itā€™s a painful experience, I never thought it would hurt so badly. Even though Iā€™m not feeling as terrible as yesterday, it is still lingering and the lecture today plus a new email I received is not helping. Sometimes I feel like this is being done on purpose but I have to remember I am not the centre of the universe.

      Maybe I should read Marxist theory as a relaxer, it may help me make it through school more than video games will (although they are fun). Sometimes I just get overwhelmed with the sheer volume of works it can be hard to choose.

      I will survive my undergrad even though Iā€™ll be a little ā€œtraumatizedā€ by the end. Maybe my masters wonā€™t be as bad if I can study under a professor that is worth learning from. I want to get involved with either my schoolā€™s Indigenous club or with a local group but my social anxiety hold me back tremendously. Once I get it reigned in I will definitely move forward with that.